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How do you handle this type of start?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by homeyg, Aug 7, 2004.

  1. homeyg

    homeyg Deity

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    I believe that this type of start is the most difficult start you can get in the entire game (unless, of course, you uncover a cow that can worked in the outer radius of the city or are an agricultural CIV):



    Why? With this start I am usually dead last to get my first settler out if I am playing on Emperor. Getting enough food to get my settler out in time (before 3000 BC, when other AIs have at least 1 city already) becomes a problem. After mining both BG squares, I start the settler but because of the food situation, the settler aways ends up being early by 2 turns and I waste a few shields. If I build another warrior, I will still have to wait 2 turns but I don't waste the shields. Both take the same amount of time (maybe one turn less with the warrior procedure because the city is able to grow to size 3 while the settler is being built). I've tried building a granary after I finally get that second city out, but that really slows down your settler production.

    Now, how do you guys handle this? I'm sure that this type of start is probably most common. Is it better to just wait until your city grows to size 4 or 5 and build 2 settlers in a row, or use the procedure I named above? What would you guys do if you were dealt this horrific disease infested start (I'm not kidding, I do horribly when I get these starts)?

    Thanks in advance (you guys probably think I'm some kind of moron for making a thread like this but I'm serious)!
     
  2. LostKnight

    LostKnight A wandering knight

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    If you want more food, just irrigate the flood plain.
    You have a very good start. If you find it crappy, try starting on tundra!
     
  3. homeyg

    homeyg Deity

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    No, there is no flood plain in that start. I wouldn't be complaining about it if it had any food bonus in it.
     
  4. biggamer132

    biggamer132 King

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    That's actually a pretty good start if you think about it. Could be much worse: Tundra, desert, tiny island... even if you start out slow, just read zerkzee's strategy guide about playing from behind. He went from being dead last and tiny to winning the game. :)
     
  5. homeyg

    homeyg Deity

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    I have read that thread, many times. I'm asking you guys, CivIII player to CivIII player, how you would play this type of start. I falter when playing this type of start, not actually this start. I just did a new game and made a screenie to give you guys an example of what I'm talking about.
     
  6. ForTheEmpire

    ForTheEmpire Warlord

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    @homeyg

    This is my analysis of the start from what I can see. This is certainly a tougher start than one would like to have. Under the fog, I can see 2 tundra tiles (1 W, 1SW; and 2SW, 1S) from your settler. Also, I see maybe a desert 1N, 1NE. I'm guessing this start is located in a southern region of the map? I'm suggesting move the settler 1E. I would be willing to move the worker 1E first to scout. With such an uncertain start position, I wouldn't mind using some worker turns to figure out the start.

    EDIT: Continuing on... At the worst, we can get 7 spt and 2fpt extra at population 5, with an extra shield or two gain with the expected food loss if we work the forests. Granary will be certainly necessary if there are no food bonuses revealed by the worker. I would make my 1st settler early, when population hits 3, if there is a nearby site that can be a better settler factory.

    EDIT2: Continuing even further on... Time a forest chop right so you can get your granary in. What civ are you playing? If you don't have pottery, research max for it, get a warrior or two out, and use some builidng (temple or barracks) to be a prebuild for a granary. The forest chop timed with this can get your granary out in a very acceptable time period.
     
  7. nullspace

    nullspace King

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    Having no food bonus at your starting location is disappointing, but this is actually a fairly average start. Although I must admit, that if I get a start like this on deity, I have a hard time winning, but a lucky start can make a deity win pretty easy.

    OK, here's what I think. First, build warriors to explore and see if there are food bonuses where you can build your second and third cities. If there are, build that settler ASAP and get the food. No problem then, you've got some good growth cities, and your capital can be a good military factory.

    If there aren't any more fertile spots, you'll have to make your own food. You've got good production and commerce with those bg and the river, so that means you should turn the production and commerce into food: research or buy pottery and build the granary.

    I usually build the granary after building one settler. Founding a second city will double your civ's growth rate, and so will building the granary, but the settler is cheaper than the granary. Build more granaries in cities that will build workers and settlers. The population in my cities usually stays small as I try to claim any land I can before the AIs get it.

    That's about all you can really do. Build the granaries to help your growth, and then try to take cities from tha AI. You could try a dense city build. More cities = faster growth, but that requires you to build more settlers.

    I've got a game like this going right now. I wasn't able to settle near any bonus food, and I was only able to claim land for about 4 cities before the AIs surrounded me. Here's a sreenshot of all the land my 'empire' was able to claim: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Claimed_Land.jpg

    The build order for Rome was something like settler-granary- settler-settler to found those three towns. I built archers in between settlers to keep Rome's size at 2 or above. Two of those new citites have granaries now so I can build workers. I'll also found a few more cities within my own borders. I don't know if I can win this game, but the vikings are at war with other civs, so maybe I can sneak in and take the food bonuses to my north.

    No extra food bonus is a tough start, so good luck with your own game.
     
  8. homeyg

    homeyg Deity

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    It seems like all of you would probably go with building the granary. Most of my experience with granaries have ended in failure. :cry: nullspace, what difficulty is that game in the screenie on?
     
  9. nullspace

    nullspace King

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    That's on Deity. I haven't gotten much farther than that screenshot because I'm a bit afraid to play the game.
     
  10. homeyg

    homeyg Deity

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    I wouldn't be afraid unless you see the AI nuking each other.
     
  11. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

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    That start doesn't look all that bad.. but why not just upload the save, and let some of the rest of us give it a shot?

    A couple of ways to play this: Plop the settler on the spot, and move the worker to one of th BGs... or...

    Move the settler S or SE, and start irrigating the plains tile....
     
  12. El Dorko Grande

    El Dorko Grande Total and utter bastard

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    What's wrong with it?

    You build a city where you stand and start working the BG's all the while building warriors for early scout work. I usually don't build granaries on emperor or deity because I find it hard enough to keep the people happy in slowgrowing cities :blush:
     
  13. smackster

    smackster SGOTM

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    Move the worker to the mountain and the settler to the hill, make your decision where to settle from there. People get obsessed with settling in the first two turns, but its better to wait two-three more turns to settle on a food bonus. Now if you do my suggested move and still don't find a food bonus, don't come complaining to me :)
     
  14. homeyg

    homeyg Deity

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    The game was with the Vikings. I played around with it a little last night and it turns out the start was completely surrounded by tundra. I can't upload a save because I never did save this one. I think I'm just going to move on to a new game (food bonus or not).
     
  15. Locomotive

    Locomotive Warlord

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    I would get two warriors, get a granary, one settler, get one more warrior (to explore with) then pump out the settlers.
     
  16. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Emperor

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    This isn't a bad city location, but it would be tough to expand quickly enough from it to stay even with the AI. You really need to find some bonus food to get your empire going. I would send the worker SW to uncover more fog, and to mine the BG. If nothing good is uncovered by the worker I would settle on the spot, then build Wa=>Wa=>Wa=>Settler. I would send the Was out exploring to make contacts for tech trading and to (hopefully) find a tile nearby with enough food bonuses and shields to create a settler factory. Your first city could follow with a rax build and specialize in military units (or perhaps a temple, if you are going for a cultural win).

    BTW, I second Scoutsout's suggestion: why not post the save and make it a QSC exercise? It would be interesting to see what the optimal solution turns out to be.
     
  17. earthguido

    earthguido Warlord

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    Honestly, I have had starting locations (now I wish I saved a screenshot) completely surrounded by tundra or swamps... I think this location can be worked out. I did not play much at higher levels, but I achieved victories with much worse starts than this.
     
  18. handy900

    handy900 Deity

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    I'd move the worker SW to the BG by the river. That's the best tile to improve since you get a commerce bonus.

    If you spot food bonus, move the settler, if not I'd either settle on the spot, or perhaps move the worker to the hill to see if I can spot some extra food.

    :D
     
  19. homeyg

    homeyg Deity

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    Okay, I'm turning this thread into a 'start exercise'. As I said above, I never saved the Vikings start, so I started another one that is pretty similar. Here's a screenie (you're playing the Ottomans):



    We'll all play until say 2500 B.C. and compare what happened. We'll also find which start sequence would have been best.

    Here's the save (4000 B.C.). Have fun with it.

    I'm going to give everyone a little time to play each start, and then people can start posting their results. Btw, please post if you're interested in doing this so I can determine whether or not to just scrap this.

    Whoah, I almost forgot, this is [c3c] V1.22.
     
  20. handy900

    handy900 Deity

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    A mini game :goodjob:

    Sounds fun. I'll play, post & embarrass myself tonight. :D
     

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