How do you know stuff?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by RemoWilliams, Mar 19, 2006.

  1. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    Well, lacking any other great ideas - how about assigning them to a city with an Academy?
     
  2. Lord Chambers

    Lord Chambers Emperor

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    I think he's refering to the AI rarely using them to build academies, or doing so in sub-optimal locations.
     
  3. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    My first GS always builds an Academy in my science city. Those that follow usually become Science Super-Specialists in that same city.

    DarkFyre may be referring to the fact that the AI generally doesn't indulge in city specialization, so it often builds academies in several cities. I may do that if I have other cities with VERY high science output; otherwise, as I said, I go the SSS route.

    It comes down to math and the number of beakers you're producing in the various cities. The Academy increases the beaker output of a city by 50%, while a science super-specialist adds 9 beakers to a city's output. At first glance, then, it seems worthwhile to build academies in any city producing 20 or more beakers per turn, as you'll get minimum 10 beaker boost, greater than the super-specialist.

    But hang on. In the science city, you should also have, besides the Academy (+50%), a library (+25%), a university (+25%), an observatory, (+25%), and Oxford University (+100%). Late in the game, you'll build a lab (+25%). If you build monasteries in your science city, which you really should, each of them increases beaker output by 10% as well. Let's assume you build two monasteries for another 20% boost.

    For most of the game, then, your science city has a 245% magnification on every beaker produced, 270% in late game. So the 9 beaker Science Super-Specialist is actually contributing an additional 22 beakers for most of the game, 24 in late game, for a total of 31-33 beakers, not a measly 9. They could contribute more if additional religions spread to your science city and you build more monasteries there. (Yes, I try to intentionally spread religions to my science city just for this reason!)

    So it only makes sense to build additional academies in cities producing at least 62 beakers per turn (50% from the academy = 31 beakers, about the same as the science super-specialist in your science city). Getting that many beakers from a non-science city in early/mid-game is pretty unusual, so the science super-specialist option usually makes more sense.

    And don't get me started on wasting a GS to have a Golden Age! :rolleyes:
     
  4. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Prince

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    So you're saying the AI isn't building academies or assigning the GS's to cities with academies?

    I do notice that AIs seem to love to trigger their own golden ages...

    What do you guys think about using GPs for that?

    Crap. Had this window open for responding after you posted. :p

    Anyway, I'm asking about GP's in general, not just GSs.
     
  5. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    No, the AI does build academies. I haven't seen it use super-specialists much, but I'm sure it does.

    As for a golden age, it only lasts 8 turns, but a super-specialist or a special building (shrine/academy) keeps on giving all game long. I sometimes build the Taj Majal to get a golden age, but I prefer getting a long-term return on my GP investment.

    I already discussed Great Scientists above.

    As for the others:

    Great Artists: saved for culture bombs--flipping cities or quelling disorder in a conquered city. Or use in your three star cities if you're going for a cultural win. In any case, they build their great work.

    Great Engineers: saved for their assistance building Wonders.

    Great Merchants: load him on a caravel/galleon/transport, send him to the furthest city on the map for a trade mission, laugh all the way to the bank. The sudden (and usually timely) infusion of cash is almost always invested in military upgrades.

    Great Prophets: build shrines in holy cities. If you've built all of these that you can, you really should try to avoid producing these guys. If I get one anyway, I curse my luck and make him a super-specialist somewhere, usually a production city for the extra hammers. I would use GPs for a GA, but that would require waiting for at least one more Great Prophet, and as I said, I don't want 'em once the shrines are built.
     
  6. n0xie

    n0xie OCC-addict

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    A Super Scientist gives 6 beakers. It only gives 9 beakers under Representation, which will for most people who do not build the Pyramids, won't be available for quite some time.
     
  7. .Shane.

    .Shane. Take it like a voter Retired Moderator

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    Quick question, how do you identify a "holy city"?

    Other than that, I like your way of thinking in terms of using Great Leaders. :)
     
  8. n0xie

    n0xie OCC-addict

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    The Holy Cities have a yellow star on the religion logo on the normal map so they're easy to spot...
     
  9. .Shane.

    .Shane. Take it like a voter Retired Moderator

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    Hmm... I'll look for this.

    What determines if a city is a holy city?
     
  10. DarkFyre99

    DarkFyre99 Prince

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    I mean, the AI does a very poor job specializing its cities, so it doesn't place them well when it builds them.

    I once found an Acadamy and Oxford University in... a city in the middle of the tundra. And there was a perfectly good commerce city without one. :lol:
     
  11. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Prince

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    When you research certain techs, they'll found religions (if you're the first finish the tech). IE: Code of Laws = Confucianism. As for which specific city in an empire founds the religion, I think (but I'm not sure) that may be based on how many beakers were necessary to get the tech, and then whichever city contributes the last beakers gets the holy city. When you found a religion (if you haven't done so yet), you'll zoom in on the city, see this light shine out of it, and it'll play a little movie like the wonder movies showing you which religion you founded.
     
  12. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    If you open religion adviser it would list all holly cities you know.
     
  13. atreas

    atreas King

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    Two things: if you don't go for cultural victory, it's really better to use artists as specialists, and especially in a border city. The only case the culture bomb has some real value is immediately after you capture a city - still, don't expect it to overcome long established borders (in other words, practically you save only the anarchy period). But a very good alternative, especially as the game aproaches the final stages, is to get the tech boost (that's a general rule, that applies also to Great Scientists and other great people).

    The second one is more serious: for a golden age it needs great people of DIFFERENT kind - so I would advise you to pray instead that you will NOT get another great prophet after the first one :).
     
  14. berserks01

    berserks01 Obviously Very Confused

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    Well, if you own a religion and your religion spreads to an opponents city, you can see what types of troops they have and figure out which of your units and how many to send to take it out.

    That's how I usually go about taking cities.
     
  15. Pantastic

    Pantastic King

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    Yeah, I've found "culture bombs" to be vastly overrated. you might manage to flip a city with one if there's several big cities, but I've seen plenty of times where I drop one and the border doesn't move an inch. The percentage control of spaces seems to be handled by culture/turn, and dropping a GA specialist does a lot for that.

    Knocking a city out of revolt is pretty rarely useful in my experience, I've done it a handful of times. It's good if you've got war exhaustion problems and can secure some new luxuries, but that's not real common. Comparing "knock a beaten up city out of revolt 4-10 turns earlir" to 1200 hammers on a wonder, 2k beakers to a new tech, +50% science in a city, 2k-4k gold, and the other GP effects makes it feel like a waste most of the time.
     
  16. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    Actially there was a game that I used 4 culture bombs. Reason was, I was taking over well developed cities off Issa and wanted to keep them productive. I had so poor location start I had only one good city, capital, and bunch of tundra cities.
    I had one blocking city and issy build city stright at it face and claim resource of it. So, I put theater and put specialists here and soon my first GP, artist come and did bomb in palace. Borders shot stright to her city. Was very handy when I was ready to attack and my city was developed well.
    So, I started my attack run, raised offending city, took next city in and bomb it with other artist. that was good city at good distance and it created space between him and my city and let me have it instantly productive. Make peace. collect forses declared again and got her capital and bomb it stright away. Reason, it was double holly city and capitals allways good. So I keeep it big and productive stright away, with successfull plane to build bunch of temples there, hire priests and created prophets for shrines.

    In next was when taking over all chine with help of 2 allies that I bribed I again bomb one good city in order to prevent allies from pillaging everything. China had a lots of towns.
     
  17. DementedAvenger

    DementedAvenger Prince

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    I'ive gotten 3 cities from one GA before. The trick is to do it on newer cities. If you see a smallish gap in the guy's borders (or even a hole) where he just expanded 30-40 turns ago, plop 3 longbows and a settler down, and culture bomb. You should get at least 2 cities that way.
     
  18. scooter

    scooter Prince

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    Uh where is the chance of revolt thing? haven't noticed that before
     
  19. unhealthyman

    unhealthyman Chieftain

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    I think i've noticed that the great engineers only help with some wonders, is there some kind of rule for which wonders they will/wont help with? And they can't help with any parts of a spaceship can they? I had a couple saved up towards the end of my last game, but couldn't find anything that they wanted to help build.
     
  20. Smokey McDope

    Smokey McDope Warlord

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    In the late game things start becoming "Projects" which can't be rushed by any means. EX: Manhattan Project, The Internet
     

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