how do you scout opponents late game?

[warrior6]

without any spies or espionage in civ 5 i have found this a little frustrating.

im future tech on a continents map. i have conquered my entire continent with france while the other continent has Russia and China who are not far behind in high score and demographics has russia as #1 in "soldiers" on their continent, nukes have decimated the Roman empire and Persia and most of their cities have been puppeted and between China and Russia.


I am going to go and attack soon. but apart from knowing where their cities are and what the terrain is, i have no idea what units they have or where their armies are positioned or where their stock is for their nukes etc. they wont allow open borders with me so i can just send any unit.... is their any way i can gather some kind of intelligence from them? there is no land left on that continent that doesnt require you stepping on some AI's territory.

 

[Maktaka]

The best you can do is swing a Destroyer, or better yet a surviving Caravel, around the edge of their borders along the coastline and get what information you can that way.

You can also make an open borders trade/purchase with them and send a mounted unit/tank scooting through. If you do this, make sure your other units are well away from their borders or they'll think you're massing for an attack (which you ARE, but no reason to show your hand too soon).

 

[Deggial]

What's about carriers loaded with fighters? Sure, their vision radius is limited, too and not comparable with a spy in the middle of the enemy territory. But it's way better than caravels or destroyers!

 

[warrior6]

using ships to patrol their waters is all i have been doing. they will never accept open borders no matter what i try to give them lol.

this is a very big flaw. a country is usually littered with enemy spies and informants before a major attack or you got satelites and spy planes gathering intelligence.


o well looks like ill just park 4 nuclear subs with 2 nukes each and just put an end to them that way.

 

[Jacques Lamerde]

If there are any CS's on that continent to become allies with than you can put units
there to see a couple of tiles into the enemies territory before attacking.

 

[Rydin_Nurdy]

I know in past Civ's you could park subs in their borders without them knowing and I'd use that to my advantage at times. Haven't tried it in CiV yet.

 

[Pook]

Warrior6, thanx for asking the question. I was wondering the same thing. I do miss espionage from previous editions of Civilization.

 

[blasto]

Yeah, I miss the map trading too.

 

[Valoc]

Try a stealth bomber with/without a carrier. It has 20 range (vision)

 

[Deggial]

Try a stealth bomber with/without a carrier. It has 20 range (vision)

Stealth bombers can not be based on carriers.

 

[donlep]

Try a stealth bomber with/without a carrier. It has 20 range (vision)

i believe all aircraft have 6 vision range

 

[CYZ]

If you can't get open borders all you can do is patrol around their borders and ally adjacent CS. It will give you some idea of the units they have and their total strength can be found in demographics.

Otherwise, launch nukes on different parts of their territory. For some reason nukes shortly reveal a pretty large area.

 

[Ickey]

How can you use air units (be they stealth bombers or others) to scout enemy terrain without attacking them? Is there a way?

 

[The_Quasar]

I would tend to use a CS to get a footing on the continent, then attacking with the most powerful units I had to get a city, then secure it, with say 3 Missile Artillery, then bring in the Bombers... once the Bombers are active, it's end of...

The most dangerous time is the turn you bring in the Bombers, you must hang onto the city at all costs or you lose the Bombers with the city. I will tend to use my toughest units guarding my Missile Artillery, having swapped over any that have got more than a bit of damage from taking over the city. Try to keep them a little away from the city , if you can, to avoid taking damage if it's nuked. By 2 or 3 turns after you've brought in the Bombers, they should have virtually no defensive units left within range.

This works well almost all the time, only problem is if they nuke your city with your Bombers, so try to get a first strike in on their city that holds the nukes, if they have any. Then take a second city as soon as you can and split your Bombers. Oh, and never commit all your Bombers to that first city immediately, keep half in reserve, just in case.

 

[The_Quasar]

How can you use air units (be they stealth bombers or others) to scout enemy terrain without attacking them? Is there a way?

Yes, have them on a Carrier or Carriers, and sail it/them around their island/continent... note that you can't do this with Stealth Bombers, but any other Fighter or Bomber will do.

You will only be able to scout about 6 tiles in by this method though, but that should be enough in the majority of cases.

 

[Rex_Mundi]

If you research sattelites, the whole map is revlealed.

I miss the map trading option.

 

[Camikaze]

Try a stealth bomber with/without a carrier. It has 20 range (vision)

i believe all aircraft have 6 vision range

Yeah, the 20 range is the range of operations, not the vision range.

Aircraft, though, are definitely the way to go. In border cities and on carriers.

 

[warrior6]

If you research sattelites, the whole map is revlealed.

I miss the map trading option.

yes thats the point though. you can only know terrain features and their cities. you cant even really know their improvements. and you wont know what kind of units their army has and where large portions of their units are stationed.

i also like the recon ability in Civ IV which let you scout territory with a fighter. gives you that spy plane feeling. CiV V could have improved on that with a spy plane unit. if it got caught then it should really really anger the other civ. the chance of success depends on how much gold you spend on each mission.

 

[davelisowski]

so you can scout without DOW by using carriers.

everything else will have to wait until you declare and can use air strikes or bomb runs to reveal more.

but before then...? i mean aircraft and satellites are late, yeah...

i guess even some sacrificial helicopters to fly through after DOW

 

[The_Quasar]

CiV V could have improved on that with a spy plane unit. if it got caught then it should really really anger the other civ. the chance of success depends on how much gold you spend on each mission.

I like that idea, and hope Fraxis will take up on it...