How do you wage war exactly?

[mscheaf]

It looks like 3 options:

Capture enemy cities and then collapse due to too many cities and cities outside your zones on the stability maps.

Raze enemy cities and then collapse due to razing cities (why?)

Do nothing but defend (fun fun).

So how do I actually wage war in this mod without collapsing?

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

Depends on what civ are you playing and how many cities are you capturing.

A stability factor is how much population do you have outside of your core in proportion to the population inside your core. There are other factors like Jails and Courthouses, if the city is within your Historical Area, how much of your culture is within the city, and so on.

You can sack cities to reduce population and buildings, that way you don't have razing penalty.

 

[Derdan]

What's even the point of sacking? It doesn't give you much and then you're still stuck with the cities, which will also cause economic damage by increasing maintenance.

 

[Dracosolon]

Another way to reduce foreign population is whipping/drafting. In my Mongol game I was frantically whipping every non core city and it was still barely enough to not collapse.

Also, as you enter new eras you get better core population modifiers, so your empire can get proportionally larger.

What's even the point of sacking? It doesn't give you much and then you're still stuck with the cities, which will also cause economic damage by increasing maintenance.

Ideally you get money from cities you're gonna lose anyway, due to flips or a counter-offensive. Flips in particular really change the context of warfare, since so many conquered cities are only temporarily yours and can only build so much in the meantime.

 

[mscheaf]

This time I am playing as Japan. I have 2 core cities and 6 cities in green on the map. My expansion was 3 (I have never seen 4 or 5 stars for that). War was declared on me by Spain and Netherlands. If I sack their cities my expansion drops to one star. If I conquer their cities, my expansion drops to one star. It seems there is a penalty no matter what you do in war. I either get a razing penalty or a penalty for having cities outside my map areas.

 

[Dannimal]

What's even the point of sacking? It doesn't give you much and then you're still stuck with the cities, which will also cause economic damage by increasing maintenance.

1. Double the gold received from capturing the city. It stacks with the Conquest civic, so that's nice.
2. Doubles the time the city is in revolt. While in revolt you don't have to pay maintenance on the city, and I believe the increased maintenance from # of cities (for entire civilization) is delayed.
3. Decreases the (foreign) culture in the city. This affect stability (% culture) and the resource allocation based on culture priority.

The downside of sacking is the buildings are destroyed. The decision to sack depends on comparing the usefulness of infrastructure vs the gold.

In early game conquest (Rome, Greece, Persia, etc) the conquered cities do not require infrastructure, as they will only be pumping out units (or jails for stability). In later eras (i.e. Mongols or Turks) the sacked infrastructure can be rebuilt using settlers. Either way it is undesirable to conquer Egypt and see Cairo is taking resources away from your core cities due to preexisting Egyptian culture.

 

[mscheaf]

How do you sack a city? I have never seen this option. I get capture or raze

 

[1SDANi]

Have a good economy, strong civic choices, and a well-spread state religion. Poor stability from razing and overextension can be offset by good stability from economic growth and a unified peoples.

 

[mscheaf]

i have 3-5 stars in everything else and having 1 in expansion always makes me unstable / collapsing no matter what the others are.

 

[Peter84]

I have had the same problem for many years. I have read about stability in civilopedia and I am not falling apart anymore.
If you only have a stability problem due to expansion then you probably have some positive points from the corresponding civics and economics. This is your margin of safety.
In order not to have negative expansion points, there are a few things you need to pay attention to.
1. Core Population - Cities in the core should have the greatest possible population density. They should work at the maximum available amount at the cost of cities outside the core.
2. Historical areas - place cities in historical areas, even if the adjacent tile seems to be better.
3. Don't take over the foreign cores - it's better to vassify your opponent than to absorb him and have a large expansion penalty.
4. In conquered cities, build courts and prisons as quickly as possible - they reduce the penalty for expansion
5. Don't destroy cities !!! - The punishment takes too long. Giving a city to a vassal or reducing its population is a better choice. The exception is small towns with a population of 1-2. As a last resort, they can be destroyed.
6. In order not to collapse, keep an eye on the expansion indicator so as not to get negative points. Ditch everything above to limit the penalty.
7. Don't think that you can conquer the whole world right away like other mods. You have to conquer areas successively while controlling stability. Choose the directions of expansion so that you do not get penalties for stability.

 

[mscheaf]

I am not trying to conquer really anything, just usually trying to get the uhv. But the AI declares war on me.

 

[Dannimal]

I am not trying to conquer really anything, just usually trying to get the uhv. But the AI declares war on me.

Are you saying the Spanish & Dutch declare war and attack your Philippine / Indonesian colonies? They spawn with Tercios and musketmen invaders respectively. If you cannot defend against these attackers, delay your invasion. Attack when you have tech parity / superiority to the European defenders, as their reinforcements are on the other side of the world.

If you are trying to defend your Korean / Manchurian colonies from China I suggest (nationhood) drafting musketmen / riflemen. If you lack sufficient forces to invade, consider colonizing the historical North American West coast to build cannons and draft troops.

Good luck.

 

[ThreeBlackSevens]

i have 3-5 stars in everything else and having 1 in expansion always makes me unstable / collapsing no matter what the others are.

Are you playing Dawn of Civilization or just the original Rhye's and Fall mod? Or perhaps a very old version of DoC. This mod does away with the stars and switches to + or - numbers, it's been the case for a very long time. I'm not sure exactly when that change was made, I've been playing for years and the stars system wasn't in the mod when I started playing it.

Not sure how helpful any of us are gonna be if we aren't playing the same thing as you

But anyway, if you're not trying to gain land then I assume it's a defensive war, in which case one option is to pillage their lands and kill their armies but stop short of the last unit in a city. If they have a small enough army compared to yours, they'll be willing to sign a peace treaty, and I've actually managed to make countries capitulate without taking a single city with this method on occasion.

If your stability is good in other ways you can usually get away with razing one city. Alternatively, you can take over a lot of their territory, make them capitulate, and then liberate their cities back to them. Being unstable for one check is usually not a big deal, but if it's a long war you may want to turn off your research to stave off the next stability check. This isn't so good if they collapse before they capitulate, but it often works quite well.

 

[mscheaf]

I am playing the original Rhyes

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

I am playing the original Rhyes

That explains it all. You should post it in the original Rhye's category, because Dawn of Civilization is its own mod.

I would then be glad to help you but I haven't played the original RFC in years.

 

[BaneFire]

What's even the point of sacking? It doesn't give you much and then you're still stuck with the cities, which will also cause economic damage by increasing maintenance.

Sacking is for when you know the city is going to flip in a few turns so you want to strip it for cash

 

[Cacaso]

Is the diplomatic penalty for razing cities permanent? and for sacking?

and if there is a penalty is it only against the civilization of that city that was affected or against all the CIVs, or even only against the CIVs that are friends with the affected city's civ?

"Spare" the City reduces diplomatic penalty?