# How does spy loyalty drop work?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Yzman, Feb 23, 2019.

1. ### YzmanDeity

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People say that they use this to flip cities, but I have never really had luck with it and maybe its because I don't understand it correctly.

It says it drops loyalty in the city by -25. Is that on a per turn basis for some length of time or is that just total? Because it reads as total, and total is a bit pointless if the city has positive loyalty to the civ already. It just fills back up.

2. ### criZpEmperor

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it the loyalty per turn in the city is high towards the owner then you obviously can't flip is just with a spy, no that would be ridiculous.

3. ### YzmanDeity

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Thanks, that didn't actually answer my question on how the mechanic works at all.

Are you saying it is just a flat 25 loss as it implies?

That makes sense to me, but when I read these boards, it seems people are able to use it a lot more effectively than me so I am trying to figure out if I am missing something.

For me, there is 2 scenarios, either my loyalty is greater than their per turn or it is less. A total loss of 25 instantly seems to help in neither scenario, unless I am just trying to make a city that was already going to flip to me, flip faster.

4. ### criZpEmperor

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-25 loyalty / 8 turns ~= -3 per turn

if the city has like +2 per turn then you can make it go negative

you're supposed to use it in conjunction with bread and circus project (from entertainment district) and amani with the -2 per turn promotion

5. ### YzmanDeity

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Ok so it is over a set time period, that makes a ton more sense. I figured it was such, but couldn't find any documentation.

6. ### Draco84Warlord

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I think what @criZp is saying 25 every 8 turns is equivalent to -3 per turn.

If the city is just breaking even you need to do it 4 times and after the last time the city would drop from. 25 to 0.

You won't flip a city in one shot.

7. ### ShunNakamuraWarlord

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You can also speed spies up a lot. I had a lot of fun flipping Korean cities, including their capital, late game with the Maori. With enough spy focus and the Linguist promotion I was able to do a loyalty drop in 2 turns. My fully promoted spies were dropping -35 on them quite fast(not quite sure what put them up to -35, the one I was using both had the forment unrest promotion as well). True I did need to use Amani as well and I focused all my spies on them so that I could neutralize their governors constantly. But if they are only generating +10 or so loyalty a turn after you do you thing you can flip them. Amani + the loss of their governor lowers their loyalty by 10 effectively.

Of course early game it tends to be much harder. Fewer spies to work with, fewer cards, harder to apply pressure. It can be done, but I view it as mostly a late game deal. And thanks to the amount of coordination it takes you at least don't have to worry about the AI doing it to YOU. Boy would that be annoying.