[GS] How does the AI have 4.6 Great Scientist points so early?

CivAddict2013

Warlord
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May 4, 2013
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217
Okay, here's the situation. I'm playing GS on Emperor. I'm playing with Pericles. I just got Mysticism a few turns ago and built a Campus immediately after I got writing. Yet, somehow there's an AI somewhere making 4.6 Great Scientist points? How?

There's no way the AI could've gotten a government yet, so it's impossible for them to get mysticism.

It's impossible for an AI to have built a lot of Campuses by now.

Too early for the AI to have the Pingala policy that gives you extra great people points.

How is the AI getting so many Great Scientist points so early?
 

foreverlost

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Mar 13, 2015
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It cheats, big time. :)

Moderator Action: This is not a helpful answer to the question above. In future, please try to provide a more complete explanation or skip past to other content. leif
 
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Sounds like two campuses outfitted with libraries in a Classical Republic. Could be Hammurabi if you have Babylon, as he gets a free library the first time he builds a campus and can easily research Writing early. Less likely, though still possible would be an AI getting a free library from Hypatia. More likely, however, would be the widely discussed science typo, in which case you can consult AI Crazy about Science for discussion and at least one solution.

As for the question of how they reached Political Philosophy, AI culture can be tough to catch up to in the early game. It is also plausible an AI could pick up a governor title from a tribal village and then two titles from early culture to promote to Grants, but this would not account for the 15% bonus. I suppose a single campus with library and building the Oracle in a Classical Republic would also do the trick.

In short, a few possibilities. Speed and turn would also be helpful for reference. Good luck!
 

CivAddict2013

Warlord
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May 4, 2013
Messages
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Sounds like two campuses outfitted with libraries in a Classical Republic. Could be Hammurabi if you have Babylon, as he gets a free library the first time he builds a campus and can easily research Writing early. Less likely, though still possible would be an AI getting a free library from Hypatia. More likely, however, would be the widely discussed science typo, in which case you can consult AI Crazy about Science for discussion and at least one solution.

As for the question of how they reached Political Philosophy, AI culture can be tough to catch up to in the early game. It is also plausible an AI could pick up a governor title from a tribal village and then two titles from early culture to promote to Grants, but this would not account for the 15% bonus. I suppose a single campus with library and building the Oracle in a Classical Republic would also do the trick.

In short, a few possibilities. Speed and turn would also be helpful for reference. Good luck!
That might be the case, but this is before it is even possible for the AI to found a government. I don't have the Babylon DLC so it's not that.

I don't think the AI could've gotten Political Philosophy that early either. I literally beelined straight to Mysticism to the get the +2GSP per turn thing as Greece. No way they have both Political Philosophy and Mysticism yet.

This is on standard speed as well.

But I'm noticing one AI getting 4.6GSP waaaaaay before Classical Republic.
 

TheMarshmallowBear

Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
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Could be someone with a free Policy, such as Jadwiga or Greece, who get a free Wildcard Policy (Jadwiga from Military slot being converted to a Wildcard one)

Could be Seondeok, or Maya, or any Science-heavy nation, no doubt Seondeok is more likely to beeline for Writing, get her Seowons asap, especially if she got lucky with a Pantheon and was able to get a second city out of it.

Does AI get GPP % modifier point boosts by difficulty?
 

Leyrann

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That might be the case, but this is before it is even possible for the AI to found a government. I don't have the Babylon DLC so it's not that.

I don't think the AI could've gotten Political Philosophy that early either. I literally beelined straight to Mysticism to the get the +2GSP per turn thing as Greece. No way they have both Political Philosophy and Mysticism yet.

This is on standard speed as well.

But I'm noticing one AI getting 4.6GSP waaaaaay before Classical Republic.

You're very insistent that the AI cannot yet have a government, but have you considered the following, due to you playing on Emperor?
1. The AI starts with a second Settler, meaning they can have a second city up in potentially as little as five or six turns, which can start producing yields immediately after.
2. The AI starts with a free builder, allowing it to immediately improve it's lands and therefore the city. Due to tech unlocks, I assume this builder is most likely to build farms, which would let the AI grow more, and science and culture are earned from population.
3. The AI receives 3 free tech and civic boosts for every era. Note that I am not sure whether these are all applied at game start, or when the appropriate era is reached (and, if it's the latter, whether the AI or the game needs to reach that era).
4. The AI receives a 60% production and gold income bonus, allowing it to build and purchase quicker than a player can, which stacks with points 1 and 2.
5. The AI receives a 24% bonus to culture (and science and faith), allowing it to progress through the trees earlier.

If things line up like the following, you can quite possibly get those great scientist points:
AI starts with Early Empire, Political Philosophy and Writing boosted (alternatively, finds another civ early to boost Writing), finds a second continent, boosts Craftmanship with it's starting builder, and goes to get it's second city settled ASAP. Also, both cities have high food and production (perhaps they have several Spices, or just a number of 2-2 tiles). It rushes Monument in both cities. In the tech tree, it rushes Writing. After the monuments (and maybe some units), it rushes double Campus, gets Political Philosophy and Mysticism (which it could very well have boosted in the meantime, e.g. because it met religious city-states or found faith in a goody hut). It then puts in the Great Scientist card.

I think that's doable within 20-25 turns, and I haven't even considered any uniques yet. As pointed out, Jadwiga or Greece (would be Gorgo in this game, as you're Pericles) don't even need Political Philosophy to get a Wildcard slot, though that wouldn't explain the .6 very well.
 

Vargas1

Prince
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Sep 30, 2020
Messages
447
Also, an AI that starts close to a natural wonder can have a massive early influx of culture to speed through the civics tree - Paititi, Cliffs of Dover or Gobustan, for instance.

Yes, my first thought was that this sounds like someone spawned near Paititi. Also possible it could be Rome or Persia (heck, or China), all of whom have extra early sources of culture that allow them to progress shockingly fast.

The 0.6 suggests that they have slotted in Classical Republic - the 15% bonus to GPP means if they had a base of 4 GS points per turn, it would bump to 4.6. Not at all unlikely that on emperor a civ like Rome (or any civ near Paititi) could have two campuses with libraries and be past Political Philosophy by the time you hit Mysticism.
 
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