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How does the new Representation Policy work?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by DST1348, Mar 6, 2011.

  1. DST1348

    DST1348 Chieftain

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    Hello,

    I am confused about how the new Representation Policy works :confused:. Here are some of my thoughts :hmm: together with some questions :

    The Culture :c5culture: cost for adopting a new Policy rises either through a) adopting a new Policy or b) founding a new city. Has someone figured out the equation that tells you the Culture :c5culture: cost based on the number of Cities , number of adopted Policies, wonders, and other social policies?

    Now, Representation does decrease the increase in cost due to b) :crazyeye:. If this sounds confusing, then you feel lilke me :). If this makes sense to you, please enlighten me!

    Another important question is: is it retroactive? That is, does it apply only to new Cities that will be founded after Representation is adopted (not retroactive), or does it apply to the cost increase due to existing Cities as well (retroactive)? For instance, if I have founded five Cities and then adopt Representation, does it only decrease the increase in Culture :c5culture: cost when I found my sixth City or does it apply to my five old ones too?
     
  2. Jim Bro

    Jim Bro Emperor of Quebec

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    good question i have no idea
     
  3. kekekeke

    kekekeke Chieftain

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    Acquiring more cities does not have retroactive effect on your current policies, I believe its safe to say this is not retroactive either. Not that I have tested.
     
  4. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Its retroactive

    The formula is

    Base cost [dependent on # of policies already] * (1+0.3*number of extra cities)

    Representation changes that 0.3 to 0.2
    on huge maps its 0.15 and changes to 0.1
     
  5. civsucks

    civsucks Chieftain

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    It's actually .45*number of extra cities
     
  6. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Well it depends on map size... that might be the tiny/duel
     
  7. nicketzsche

    nicketzsche Chieftain

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    So does it make sense to beeline to this policy?
     
  8. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Only if you plan on having a lot of non-puppet cities or a lot of policies... it doesn't make sense to take it very late in the game (Like Free Speech)
     
  9. magnus333

    magnus333 Chieftain

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    When I hear retroactive I think of it going back to your previous policies and giving you the discount on those that you would have gotten if you had this bonus at the time that you selected the old policies. It does not do that.

    The policy changes the cost of the next policy you buy and any there after, it does not change the cost of the ones you have already bought. Therefor, the sooner you get it the more benefit you get from it.

    Let's say you have 5 cities and your next policy costs 1000:c5culture:. You spend 1000:c5culture: to buy representation. Your next policy, and any thereafter, get the discount. If you then found a 6th city on a standard size map (0.3 base modifier) your next policy cost will increase by 20% instead of 30%.

    However, let's say you have 5 cities and your next policy costs 1000:c5culture:. You get a free policy from building the oracle and you choose Representation. You will immediately see the change in formula and your next policy will actually cost less than the 1000:c5culture: it was going to.

    I wouldn't call it retroactive, I would say it immediately changes the formula and recalculates the cost of your next policy.

    As to whether it's worth it to beeline, that depends on an infinite amount of factors. The extra benefit you get from other policies might be worth more than the earlier discount of representation depending on how the game plays out... but isn't that what civ is all about?
     
  10. DST1348

    DST1348 Chieftain

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    Thank you :thanx: (and the other members who replied), that was what I was looking for :goodjob:!

    I wanted an equation to avoid confusion about words . I tought of "retroactive" with respect to number of cities, whereas you thought with respect to policy cost. My interpretation came from the in-game tooltip, which says "Each city you found will increase the Culture cost of policies by 33% less than normal". But thank you for your clarification on that point!

    I agree, we just have to play around.
     
  11. Chibiabos

    Chibiabos Chieftain

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    Incorrect. The policy does not alter the increase in policy cost from adopting new policies, it alters the increase in policy cost from building new cities, and it does this retroactively -- that is, it will reduce the current cost of your next policy by 1/3rd of the extra cost of your existing cities (beyond your capital).

    I have tested and confirmed this, and you can do the same if you build the Oracle to get a free policy, and use that free policy to adopt Representation. If you do this, the cost of your next social policy will actually decrease. If you adopt Representation as a normal policy after having acquired enough culture (instead of the free policy from building the Oracle), it is harder to notice that the culture cost rise from founding cities is applied retroactively, because the culture cost rise after adopting a policy is higher than the culture cost rise from building a new city, so the retroactive reduction of the culture cost rise from your existing cities can easily be more than eaten up by the rise from spending your culture on the new policy.
     
  12. Roller123

    Roller123 Chieftain

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    No, magnus333 is right here, its not retroactive. The current and following policy costs are calculated by a number of cities. Representation decreases the effect on current and following costs. This is a fixed one-time change, and does not affect anything in the past. So spending 10millions culture before picking Representation will not give any of that culture back(the retroactive part here). If Representation is picked last, it does then in fact absolutely nothing. Thus - the earlier the better.
     
  13. Chibiabos

    Chibiabos Chieftain

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    If it were not retroactive, it would not affect the cost of the cities you have already built and thus would not affect the culture cost of your next policy. I have proven that it does.
     
  14. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Retroactive with regards to cities

    Not retroactive with regards to policies
     
  15. Civ4Brains

    Civ4Brains imperfectus

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    the above quote is actually a pretty good explanation of the provided formula and from some of my own tests I would concur that the change in formula from:

    Base cost [dependent on # of policies already] * (1+0.3*number of extra cities)

    to

    Base cost [dependent on # of policies already] * (1+0.2*number of extra cities)

    does factor in cities built before or after the acquisition of the Representation policy.
     
  16. megabearsfan

    megabearsfan Chieftain

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    I think the confusion that some people are having regarding whether the policy is "retroactive" or not is that people are not understanding that the policy does not give you culture back.

    When you adopt the policy, it reduces the cost of future policies for ALL your cities, including ones that are already built by the time you adopt the policy.

    It does not reduce the costs of policies that you have already adopted. Therefore, if the reduction in cost would have allowed you to adopt an extra policy (if you had adopted Representation earlier in the game), you will not get an extra policy for free.
     
  17. anandus

    anandus Errorist

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    So to get the most out of it, this should be adopted before founding a second city?
    I'm not saying that's the best thing to do, but in that way you get the maximum culture-discount.
     
  18. Gort

    Gort Chieftain

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    This is what I do. I beeline this policy and spend the time building monuments, workers, and a starting army. Sometimes even a settler so I'm ready to go the moment I get the policy.
     

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