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How essential is the Parthenon to tourism victory?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Athenaeum, Apr 27, 2015.

  1. Athenaeum

    Athenaeum Prince

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    I had never tried tourism victory before, so I went ahead and experimented a little. I tried Parthenon just because it was part of the show. To me I think it would be stupid to rush it. But on the harder difficulties, does it anyone find it essential for tourism victory?

    One of the main flaws I see in it, is that by the time you build it you might not have met all the civs yet, so that early tourism would not help at all for becoming influential to civs on other continents.
     
  2. Athenaeum

    Athenaeum Prince

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    Another question. Anyone think it might be ideal to go Liberty for Tourism Victory? Since having more cities would allow you to build more great work buildings, and more great work slots available.
     
  3. Myth and Legend

    Myth and Legend Prince

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    No single World Wonder is essential to Culture victory. Grabbing the Parthenon on Deity is very hard to do unless you have a salt start.

    You should definitely go Tradition and make a massive capital so you can work your guilds ASAP to produce GWs/GAs.

    Mass cities doesn't work well on the higher difficulties because all the good land is gone soon and you will end up with slower growth and massive happiness problems.
     
  4. Mesix

    Mesix The Allfather

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    Don't build the Parthenon. You can always take it from the AI.

    Go for Piety and take the Sacred Sites bonus belief along with a combination of 2 faith purchased buildings (i.e. cathedrals, pagodas, mosques, or monasteries). That is the quickest way to early tourism.

    You should also (of course) scout out the map to meet everyone as early as possible.
     
  5. A.J.K.

    A.J.K. Chieftain

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    Not at all. you know what is good? Cathedrals. Lots of empty art slots.
     
  6. eris

    eris King

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    All the math I have seen has indicated it is not worth it for early game hammers against one Great Work and one Great Work slot. You won't like it that someone else has that two Tourism per turn against you, but it won't cost you the game by itself.

    As just mentioned, Cathedrals can hold a lot of art.
     
  7. Myth and Legend

    Myth and Legend Prince

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    I've only ever gotten that once on Deity, and that was with Desert Folklore and a bunch of AI leaders who didn't have faith bonuses (no Ethiopia, Celts etc.)

    And about 75% of the time i can't get ANY religious buildings since the AI spams so wide and gets so many temples.
     
  8. ToborajniN

    ToborajniN Warlord

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    I don't think I've ever built Parthenon, or even tried to build it. I don't like the tech path-rush it would have to require. And I don't rly think the wonder is "good enough" anyways. It is however pretty nice to conquer, but that's about it.. CV's are very easily doable without it. In fact, I dare say most CV players don't even try to grab Parthenon on immortal+
     
  9. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    You don't need to generate any art for a CV. Try Polynesia and see for yourself. IronFighter produced a sub 200 CV on the DCL#20-Spain irrc. I believe he beelined Futurism and spammed the world with great artists/writers/musicians. Although that map was easy and many wonders would be achievable I think Ironfighter's strategy lay in the 250 tourism from each Futurism great person.
     
  10. Mesix

    Mesix The Allfather

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    The OP doesn't state that he plays at deity level. The question was about getting a fast tourism (cultural) victory.

    The two fastest ways to win a cultural victory (in fact the only ways to win preindustrial era with tourism) are with Sacred Sites and conquering all but one civ and using a Great Musician on the last remaining opponent.
     
  11. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    There is a heck of a lot of culture in the Parthenon. If you can build it, you will get your policy tress finished faster. The tourism seems minor.
     
  12. Athenaeum

    Athenaeum Prince

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    The Piety/Sacred Sites strategy is one reason why I thought Liberty might be good for TV.

    More cities means more faith buildings to purchase.

    The main reason why I thought Liberty might be good for tourism is that you would be able to build more amphitheaters, museums, opera houses, etc., so you would rely less on building wonders to acquire great work slots.
     
  13. RuleroftheHex

    RuleroftheHex Chieftain

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    This is a common discussion. In general, it's better to build tall rather than wide. If you ill your Slots in a 4-city Tradition game, then that with Hotels and Airports can easily secure a CV, especially as France or Brazil or with some GM bombing. The main problem with going wide is that you end up spending time without National Epic, and you often don't grow your cities enough to get Specialist slots filled. Science is incrediby important for CV, and wide empires work against that. Likewise, lower production means slower construction of buildings like Amphitheaters.
     
  14. Redaxe

    Redaxe Emperor

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    It's not bad but not at all essential.
    On its own it will tend to keep your influence over the AI near exotic. So its a bit of a head start although Great Library probably wins out in the long run if you can get the theming bonus.

    It is as mentioned good for culture and it also gives you a bit more leverage with ideologies.
     
  15. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    Parthenon gives a good foundation in primitive eras for early tourism but one shouldn't rely on this tourism and make some more.
     
  16. NukeAJS

    NukeAJS King

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    Parthenon is mainly useful for its ability to make a pre-medieval great work of art. You can use this for theming the more difficult wonders like Louvre, Uffizi, and Hermitage. It's also a lot of culture.

    Both these features are certainly nice, but definitely not necessary to win a cultural game. Plus, the computer LOVES it so you'll probably not even have a shot unless you're at a lower difficulty.
     
  17. Makavcio

    Makavcio Prince

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    The wonder is not wort a pursue. Why? Because you are not going to get it anyway. AI gets it so soon sometimes it feels like they are building it from turn 1. Yes, it's a sweet wonder especially for the heap of culture it generates very early in the game, however, if you are not swimming in spare hammers, your chances of getting it are slim and circumstantial (a favorable set of civs in game).

    The above applies to immortal and deity games. On lower difficulties, a skilled enough player can easily get it with an at least mediocre starting location.
     
  18. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    Sometimes you actually can get a wonder even on deity difficulty. You may fail most of them but get at least 1.
     
  19. Volcanon

    Volcanon Prince

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    Cathedrals make relic-hoarding so much easier. Problem is the AI likes cathedrals, often more than Mosques. Recent game I had on immortal (with lots of other religious civs like ethiopia, arabia and byzantines), everything was taken except mosques. Even though for raw power mosques are probably the best.
     
  20. Athenaeum

    Athenaeum Prince

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    Since some have mentioned it in this thread, I would like to address the Cathedrals/Pagodas/Mosques + Sacred Sites strategy.

    I understand and agree that Tradition is better than Liberty on harder difficulties (and probably in general), but wouldn't playing wide with this strategy be a lot more beneficial in terms of tourism?

    Also is it not a mistake to adopt Piety (which you would need for Sacred Sites) in a high-difficulty game?
     

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