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How exactly does Venice work?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by FlorbFnarb, Mar 11, 2015.

  1. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    You can do Science Victory if you go Freedom and take Space Procurements. With double the Trade Routes, you should be rolling in dough to buy all the SS parts regardless of the city's production capability.
     
  2. megabearsfan

    megabearsfan Chieftain

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    Again, I have a full guide for Venice that should help you out:
    http://www.megabearsfan.net/post/2014/05/15/Civ-V-Venice-strategy.aspx

    But some quick tips:
    1.) Guilds : send at least a couple internal food and production routes to Venice. You should have more than enough trade routes available to do this and still make tons of gold. This will speed up construction and give you enough food to support specialists. Use excess gold from your trade routes to buy standard buildings and units, so that your capital's production can be spent almost exclusively on Wonders and other un-buyable stuff. Basically, your capital should almost never be building anything except for wonders, archaeologists, spaceship parts, etc.

    2.) wonders = see (1.)

    3.) Archaeologists : This one is a bit of a problem. Around the time that you are getting ready to research Archaeology and build Archaeologists, start diverting extra production trade routes to the capital in order to speed through building multiple Archaeologists.

    4.) International Projects : Puppet cities will contribute to International Projects, especially if they have nothing else to build. If you use production trade routes to buff the production of newly-acquired puppets earlier in the game, they should have all the infrastructure already in place, and can work on International Projects when they are proposed. Again, you should have more than enough trade routes available to divert a couple to your newer puppets.

    5.) Promotionless units : Why don't you have promoted units?

    6.) Science Victory : With the Space Procurement Freedom tenet, you can buy Spaceship parts with gold. If you managed to save up a few Engineers over the course of the game, you can also take Order's Space Pioneers, which lets engineers rush spaceship parts. If you finished Tradition (which you should have), you can also purchase Engineers with faith assuming you have a religion.

    7.) Puppets contributing to victory :
    • Culture Victory : Puppets will contribute cultural defense against rival tourism, as well as your own tourism for a culture victory.
    • Diplomatic Victory : Merchants of Venice also generate additional influence and gold from their trade missions, which will allow you to more quickly buy up CS allies if you don't want to annex them outright. Puppet cities prioritize gold buildings, and will also prioritize merchant specialists. Sending them food trade route will allow them to grow to support more specialists, which will allow them to spawn Merchants of Venice.
    • Science Victory : See (6.)
    • Domination Victory : Make sure you do annex a few puppets so that you don't cap the number of units you can build. Commerce's Mercenary Army is a great policy for Venice, since Landsknechts will be cheap to buy and can pillage to refund the gold you spent on them.
     
  3. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Chieftain

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    Venice looks UP but it can get a victory in deity and civilization, too. I've seen it done on YouTube so i'm not that worried about Venice. If it was on me and I had to lead Venice to victory, I'm already estimating that it would have issues since most players like to cancel their trading deals with me. Why? I don't know, I can't say. However, if civilizations are able to let me trade with them that would be great.
     
  4. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    All great points once again from MegaBearsfan, but I have a question and a comment:

    Do you NEED a Religion to purchase Great People with Faith? I thought you only needed to finish the appropriate Policy Tree.


    One extra point I'd like to add is that, when you puppet a CS with a GMoV, you also gain their units. So if you're aiming for a Domination Victory and you pick your CS purchases carefully, you can amass quite a large army/navy pretty easily.
     
  5. megabearsfan

    megabearsfan Chieftain

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    You don't need to have founded a religion, but you generally need to have a religious presence in your cities (even if its foreign) in order to generate enough faith to buy Great People. You could hypothetically have Shrines and Temples in all your cities and generate enough faith for great people, but they would likely be very few and far between if you aren't also getting faith from Cathedrals, Pagodas, Mosques, or tiles buffed by a pantheon.
     
  6. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    You only need a religion in one city in which you can purchase units (i.e., not a puppet).
     
  7. kzcosme

    kzcosme Chieftain

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    In regard of bias, I have played a Great Plains map where the only civ with acess to coast was Venice... Kind of bizarre.
     
  8. Redaxe

    Redaxe Chieftain

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    Yes this is quite true. The most frustrating thing about Venice is that you only have to have a couple Civs in your neighborhood declare war on you, sack all your trade routes and grind you down by attrition and you have no means to recover.

    So you have to manage your game very carefully to prevent that from happening at all costs. The Great Galleas contrary to what the Civilopedia says SUCKS. It can barely beat a Caravel in a straight fight and against a equal tech civ will take horrible damage from city attacks.

    However after a playthrough of Venice I did find a pattern which I think is worthwhile following for the most part.
    Basically I think ignore the Ancient & Medieval Era Wonders because none of them are essential or really that good. However the Classical Era Wonders are much more attractive and you should get a least a couple of them.


    1. Build order is probably scout>shrine>granary/monument...
    If you have a desert start then desert folklore is essential

    2. Open Tradition and Beeline the Hanging Gardens. As you don't build settlers you will have time to get basic buildings in place to rush this wonder. You should steal a nearby worker to avoid the time wasted in having to build workers.

    3) If you have desert then you certainly need to beeline Petra. It is achievable on Diety.
    Otherwise from here I would probably beeline Philosophy. For me I would prioritise Oracle over the National College because I hate being beaten to Wonders.

    More than anything I think Venice really needs some additional sources of culture. Hanging Gardens, Oracle, National College, National Epic & Heroic Epic will total 7 additional culture per turn and these wonders should be a fairly high priority. Also working the Writers Guild ASAP is highly desirable to get additional culture and tourism. Note that the border of Puppet States grow really slowly so it very good to have some Great Works ready so you can move them into these cities to speed up their border growth when they get Amphitheatres otherwise you will lose tiles to nearby civs

    4) Once you have Philosophy I would get Optics for your merchant of Venice. Some people may wish to get Optics earlier but I think the early Hanging Gardens will provide enough food to grow your capital up until now. Citystates usually develop faster when they are not puppeted (especially in Diety, they will probably have pikemen before you have composite bowmen) so if you wait a bit longer to puppet a city you may find they are much more developed and come with a nice army.

    5) After you get the Oracle, National College, Writers Guild fit in all the other essential infrastructure as required.
    Try and get a religion and a Grand Temple in ASAP. A Grand Temple will really boost your faith per turn and makes your trade routes export your religion really quickly. This will also give you some faith generation so you can buy some Great Engineers in the Industrial Period. For beliefs I think 'World Church or Tithe', Religious Community and Defender of the Faith (if you have unfriendly neighbors nearby) are worthy choices

    6) Your probably now in the medieval era; personally none of the medieval wonders really appeal to me as Venice so I would use this time to build a barracks and a Heroic Epic and focus on getting a decent sized army and making sure that all your trade route slots are filled. Largely because the Renaissance era wonders are much better and if you have a nice military now you won't need to worry so much about defense when you are building the Leaning Tower, Sistine Chapel or Forbidden Palace. It shouldn't need to be said that Education is the technology you beeline to.

    7) From there I would strongly prioritse on getting to Navigation and building/buying a fleet of Frigates. Naval control should be one of your key goals as you want to make sure your cargo ships are protected. After this I think it is fairly straight forward, just beeline techs that have Wonders you need and make sure that Scientific Theory is high on the list.
    Once you have a fleet of Frigates you can start looking further abroad and maybe a nearby neighbor has the Colossus ripe for the taking.

    Social Policies.
    Venice gets benefit of many social policy trees but its best to pick policies that benefit puppet cities & your economy

    1) So full Tradition for starters.
    2) I would then open Commerce to Mercentalism. As you will be purchasing items the 25% discount is very useful and you can buy Landsknechts to use as cheap cannon fodder if you need. Commerce is actually a very useful tree if you are intending on playing a diplomatic victory and I would take Entrepreneurship over Patronage since the Merchant of Venice is very good at diplomatic missions.
    Big Ben is also an essential Wonder & with Mercentalism with give you a 40% discount on buying items.

    3) From here I would probably unlock Rationalism and take Secularism and then work to Free Thought. Puppeted Citystates seem to prioritise specialists and trading posts over mines and farms so these policies will ensure that your puppets are achieving high efficiency.

    4)Exploration is also an option as the opener provides a nice bonus to naval units and Maritime Infrastructure also is a real help to puppets but I tend to think that Rationalism is more important. But this really depends on how confident you are going in Science. Otherwise if you are going for a culture victory I would also be concentrating on Aesthetics.

    5) For ideologies Freedom is definitely the best as it offers the most to boosting specialists, great people generation and landmarks/great person tiles. Statue of Liberty is essential.
     
  9. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

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    Because the CS the MoV bought has no promoted units? Since you have to buy units anyway, and promoted units cost the same as unprompted ones, the promoted units are mostly all purchased out of Venice (because of Heroic Epic). Or you can buy promotion buildings in a CS, but that is kind of a waste of money when you already have those building in Venice.

    Venice cannot annex AI cities either. If Venice could annex cities, it would not be nearly so terrible. This would not really make them OP either, it would just mean more building and less buying.
     

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