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How fast can turns get?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by KevinLandwaster, Dec 31, 2015.

  1. DizzKneeLand33

    DizzKneeLand33 Fall from Heaven 2 still rocks

    Joined:
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    Kansas City
    On my old laptop, the animations were PAINFULLY slow. I remember the mp game where my opponent decided to surprise DOW me with about 50 bombers. I saw the first animation for about 30 seconds....

    .... made tea.... drank tea.....

    .... made *dinner * (not kidding) -- animations still going as I sat down to eat.....

    So, since that time, I just bought an off the shelf desktop computer at Best Buy (an HP envy). Wow, the game is *so cool* when the animations work! I get through the modern era turns on a huge map with 22 civs (well, a few less by that time of course :crazyeye: ) and 40 CS in less that 15 seconds. I couldn't even play a huge map before -- large maps with 13/25 took about 3-5 minutes in the modern/atomic era.

    So, I don't know what the exact difference is (but it may have already been mentioned), but there was a big change for me from laptop to desktop -- maybe it's a dedicated graphics card, etc.
     
  2. KevinLandwaster

    KevinLandwaster Chieftain

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    update #2 on the double-click f10 thing: It does work. I tried it again, and I must have been doing it wrong before, because I was able to skip through the combat animations without changing to "quick combat" in the options. It would be nice to bind this to another key.

    I've never had a problem with the actual animations, it's the waiting for processing when there is no animation happening between turns that is taking forever right now.
     
  3. chuckh89

    chuckh89 Prince

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    Woodridge, IL

    So, I found a old game save if some people would like to do some basic bench marking with a pretty demanding setup. (Not insane)

    I attached the end game save (Turn 500 - Y 2050), and basically the game is complete and you are in the "Wait, Wait, one more turn" phase.

    This is Mesix's winning game from April 2015 Gauntlet G-Major LIX,...
    -Many people had mentioned having extremely long play times during this Gauntlet, and in general "Time" Gauntlets (where best score takes precedence) have many cities and many calculations.

    Here is the reference for the Gauntlet and Saves, and you really should check out the third item, which is Cromagnus's attempt with totally insane numbers (Sorry, no game save),...it took him about a week to complete,...his completion post is #176 and his screenshot is the "Spoiler".

    http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ5/gauntlet.php?show=major&gauntlet=157

    http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ5/game_info.php?entryID=9277

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=545612&page=9

    Spoiler :


    O.K. so load the attached file, or get it from the Gauntlet Page then compare some of your numbers,....

    There isn't a lot of movement to be done (on purpose), and the main thing to focus on is the length to complete the turn once the movements are complete, and your waiting for the completion of the turn.

    Just for reference,...

    When selecting Civ 5 of my Steam Library, it takes 40 seconds to get to the Main Menu.
    It takes me about 1 minute 12 seconds once loading the game (Mesix's attached) to get to "Continue the Journey"

    If I choose the simplest of calculations,...ZZZzzz, next turn, and just select any item for city production,...I can complete my actions in about 31 seconds....(That's rapid fire, as quickly as you can)

    The final calculation is from "Next Turn">>>>>Please Wait>>>>>"Choose Production"

    In its simplest form,...

    Full turn (as quickly as possible)
    "Begin the Journey to "Choose Production" - 2 minutes 2 seconds

    Final Calculation - After units and selecting production
    "Next Turn to "Choose Production" - 1 minute 30 seconds

    Intel(R)Core(TM)i7-5960xCPU@ 3.0 GHz
    40' 4K Monitor at 3840x2160

    -
     
  4. Primacide

    Primacide Settler

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    California
    This is exactly what I did about six months ago. I spent two hundred on a basic tower and then spent three hundred (US) on a high end card. I had to cut a custom port in the back because it's so big. :) So far, it has improved turn times and enabled me to run all high quality settings. Late game, deity (tons of units) and standard number of civs, my turns take fifteen to twenty seconds to run (time from clicking end turn to the time it is my actual turn again). Seriously, even if you have a POS machine, spend the money on a ridiculous graphics card. It will save you from buying a new machine.
     
  5. chuckh89

    chuckh89 Prince

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    Location:
    Woodridge, IL
    Actually,..
    A graphics card will help you with the frame rates and animated portions of the game, and increase turn times if your having problems displaying the images quickly,...

    BUT,... not with speed of the calculations. The solution for that is a faster processor and a high quality SSD (which is of course is dependent on the rest of the hardware -(Motherboard, Power Supply, Cooling)
     
  6. KevinLandwaster

    KevinLandwaster Chieftain

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    Are you switching to strategic map before hitting "next turn" and still waiting 20 seconds in later eras on deity? 20 seconds is pretty good in any case, though. I would like to stay on the regular map all the time if I could. Also, I would like to play "Earth" map with max civs (I think its 24). I wonder how a good comp would handle that.

    (side thought: Is there a mod that automatically switches to strategic map when you hit next turn?)
     
  7. KevinLandwaster

    KevinLandwaster Chieftain

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    Another thing about the AI processing for lots of civs on the map: The software processes their moves one civ at a time rather than in parallel, so having multiple cores probably doesn't help as much as having greater cpu speed.

    Or, maybe it can process multiple civ AIs at once, but it will still say: "processing for Poland, processing for the Shoshone, processing for...."

    Anyone have any knowledge/recommendation about multi-core versus serial processing speed?
     
  8. Primacide

    Primacide Settler

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    Yes there is a mod that does that - funny you should ask. It's on steam, but I'm sorry I don't know the name off the top of my head.

    So my late game 15 second turn time is with full graphics options. I don't switch to the strategic view anymore between turns, which is nice. While I realize that the graphics card is handling video instructions only, it has the net effect of improving the processor that is handling game calculations, precisely because it no longer has to handle video data. I would argue that investing in a high end graphics card is the most cost effective way to seriously increase game speed. You could buy a machine with a ssd and quad core processor, but that's not really practical for many of us with kids and wives who want to know where that two grand went. If you have to make your money count - invest in the boo-yah graphics chipset. You won't be sorry.
     
  9. KevinLandwaster

    KevinLandwaster Chieftain

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    The computer I will probably build is about $700 including a $200 video card (The best video card in that price range as of now is the Radeon R9 380) It has an I5, 8GB RAM and an SSD. From what I've read here, I am predicting I will rarely wait more than 10 seconds, unless I have 24 civs in the information era all going to war at the same time.
     
  10. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    My experience is with a four-year-old iMac, but with quick combat turned on, time between end-game turns is less than twenty seconds. Things got much faster with the patch from a couple years ago (which supported more integrated video cards) and then a little faster (and less crashes) with each OS X update.

    I don't understand how buying a brand new computer helps much give that the base code, and especially video driver support, is so old! Is anyone in this thread using a $500 Mac Mini (itself over a year since it has been refreshed)? It seems to me that there would be something of a scandal if a new Mac could not run an old game -- which makes me conclude that the performance must be okay.

    If you are going to be spending $500 or more and your main entertainment is Civ, it might be worth spending some time in an Apple Store. You should be able to log into Steam and try it out without purchasing a new copy of Civ.
     
  11. KevinLandwaster

    KevinLandwaster Chieftain

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    Actually my intention is to build a gaming PC for next-gen titles like Skyrim and Total War Rome II. I was just asking people what kind of between-turn wait times they are experiencing with a decent PC.
     
  12. KevinLandwaster

    KevinLandwaster Chieftain

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    I might also go for the R9 390x 4GB card and get a 1440p monitor. It depends on how things go with my work income.
     
  13. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    I've noticed after replacing the graphics card for one with 4x more memory the turn times in normal and strategic are almost equal.
    Late game turn times are still unacceptable long, 1 minute on a large map.
     
  14. marYn

    marYn Chieftain

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    Hi All, when calculating a turn only one thread runs for this task, just as somebody mentioned above. You should use a CPU which can deliver the best performance for 1 thread.

    Check this: http://www.pcgamer.com/the-best-pc-gaming-cpus-processors/

    "The fastest of the new Core i5 processors, the Core i5-4690K, is our absolute favorite. It’s a quad-core model that runs at 3.5 GHz, with a Turbo Mode frequency of 3.9 GHz."

    There is no benefit to buy more than 4-core processor, rather focus on top performance per core (Turbo Mode).
     
  15. KevinLandwaster

    KevinLandwaster Chieftain

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    I had a similar i5 picked out, but for about $50 dollars more, I might go with the one you recommended. 3.9ghz overclocked...not too shabby.
     
  16. Janskey

    Janskey Prince

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    There's so much guesswork going on, I think I'll run some small scale tests this weekend. At least I'll test the effects of number of CPU cores (1 vs. 2. vs 4) and varying clock speed (maybe 2 vs. 3 vs. 4GHz).
     
  17. darkskies

    darkskies Warlord

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    Unless of course other programs/processes are also running in which case more cores will reduce the congestion somewhat (depends on a lot of factors of course). Also it's always possible civ 6 might have some multithreading aspects in which case the emphasis may change to more multicores being better in the future (which is why when I had to build a new desktop last year I went with a 5830k).

    OP:
    As to getting faster turns especially late game, cut down the number of city-states this can help a lot, when I played on a Surface Pro 1 I used to play on huge maps but cut city-states down to about 18-20 and with 6 or so civs and it would be tolerable.
     
  18. KevinLandwaster

    KevinLandwaster Chieftain

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    I never thought of trying to use a huge map, then cut out some of the civs and city states. You actually get to play on a more "huge" map with a lot more tiles? It looks like I might have another victory scenario after I'm done with diplomatic on Emperor.
     
  19. darkskies

    darkskies Warlord

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    It can add variety, I've even tried one on one or one on two with huge maps, sometimes the AI will do strange things, like I came across Egypt once mid game with all this empty territory around and he had settled two cities. I watched a while and he never expanded so I just went in and took him out of the game. If you play that way some things change, for example, I'll make three or four scouts before anything else to pick up all the goodies and get them upgraded to archers.
     
  20. Janskey

    Janskey Prince

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    Ok, here are the results of some quick testing with an i5-3570K. Huge map, turn 274, 9 AI Civs and 22 CS alive.
     

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