How good is the Commercial trait in Conquests?

[Zardnaar]

I haven't used the commercial trtait much except with the odd game as the greeks. So how good is it? It seems a subtle power but I have noticed the reduced corruption is good and you have more money.

Does it kick in mid to late game though? (stock exchange/banks, lots of luxuries)

 

[AngryGerbil]

Ho ah, oops. sorry.

**EDIT**

I should clarify.

I typed up this long winded babble about the Scientific trait (because I'm an absent minded fool sometimes.). I posted it, then I quickly realized that this thread had nothing to do with Scientific so I edited it and replaced it with the above "Ho ah", but the "Last edited by...." thing never came up so it looked as if my original post was "Ho ah, oops, sorry." which would, of course make no sense.

Also: I like strawberries.

 

[Park Ranger]

I've always liked commercial trait because its bonus goes directly into your tax/research base (as opposed to a particular construction like libraries for Scientific). But the most significant bonuses kick in when your cities reach size 7 and again at 13, which requires more or less waiting depending on your circumstance.

Now, in C3C, there's another trait that give a commerce bonus:
Seafaring

The commerce bonus in coastal cities kicks in right away, no waiting around until aqueducts get built. Seafaring civs also start with alphabet, just like commercial civs.

So I'd say the bonuses enjoyed by commercial civs in C3C are not as exclusive as they were before, as seafaring civs will compete in similar ways.

 

[Zardnaar]

Originally posted by Park Ranger
I've always liked commercial trait because its bonus goes directly into your tax/research base (as opposed to a particular construction like libraries for Scientific). But the most significant bonuses kick in when your cities reach size 7 and again at 13, which requires more or less waiting depending on your circumstance.

Now, in C3C, there's another trait that give a commerce bonus:
Seafaring

The commerce bonus in coastal cities kicks in right away, no waiting around until aqueducts get built. Seafaring civs also start with alphabet, just like commercial civs.

So I'd say the bonuses enjoyed by commercial civs in C3C are not as exclusive as they were before, as seafaring civs will compete in similar ways.

Seafaring also has elements of expansionist as well I've noticed. Its all money.

 

[Ision]

Commercial is as good or better than most of the triats - lower corruption and higher commerce give large cities immense power. The effects of this trait start small and build up over time. The way it works in combination with scientific is especially powerful.

Ision

 

[Pfeffersack]

The combination of seafaring ans commercial is powerfu, too, because the traits are cumulative.

 

[meltone1]

Are they really cumulative? That's great.

Upon building aqueducts in your cities, they all produce 2 extra gold than normal. I'm not sure how much extra they produce after hospitals, though. This is quite substantial, and the lower corruption benefit also is.

 

[Zardnaar]

Originally posted by Pfeffersack
The combination of seafaring ans commercial is powerfu, too, because the traits are cumulative.

Made me look at england again. They have a crappy UU though.

I have noticed though that the Byzantines and Greeks can play a similar type of game though. Byzantine expands faster though and gets more early contacts.

 

[meltone1]

Originally posted by Zardnaar


Made me look at england again. They have a crappy UU though.

I can't believe you think they have a crappy UU. I would say it is the best naval UU by far. If your opponent has a lot of them, you might as well forget trying to get anything done by sea. They dominate the water, plain and simple.

 

[Zardnaar]

Originally posted by meltone1


I can't believe you think they have a crappy UU. I would say it is the best naval UU by far. If your opponent has a lot of them, you might as well forget trying to get anything done by sea. They dominate the water, plain and simple.

Naval Units are largly optional though until battleships and carriers.

 

[ybbor]

Originally posted by meltone1


I can't believe you think they have a crappy UU. I would say it is the best naval UU by far. If your opponent has a lot of them, you might as well forget trying to get anything done by sea. They dominate the water, plain and simple.

your thinking of the dromon. the man-o-war is outdated by the ironclad. no, the Engish UU smells like a rotton pile of skunk liver

 

[Juhahu]

Originally posted by ybbor


your thinking of the dromon. the man-o-war is outdated by the ironclad. no, the Engish UU smells like a rotton pile of skunk liver

Most people won't even research iron clads in multiplayer games, so they often aren't a problem to english.

Anyway, man-o-war is a very good ship even after iron clads, because of their speed 5+1 vs iron clads 3 and cost which is only 2/3 of iron clad's.

Sure it ain't the best UU, but there are much worse.

Btw, I like the portugese carrack more. Only 50% of the cost of frigate and it got transport ability.

 

[DrJambo]

Actually, the English as a civilisation in C3C are pretty good now! I've been using them in my last Monarch level epic game and the seafaring/commercial combination has been awesome for science and money!

The thing with the English before C3C was they just weren't able to keep up in the Early game unless they were seriously lucky with goody huts. Now, the searfaring trait is excellent in the early game, and combined with the Commercial trait means you can race through the early tech tree. In the late game the Commercial trait really comes into its own especially with its reduced corruption.

The MoW is now really useful IMHO, especially on a archipaelago map. It's had its stats re-balanced and now has the ability to enslave - meaning it can essentially multiply itself out in the seas! The new crater-damage able to be done with bombardment means that using them to bombard land improvements is actually very useful. Not only that, but the Ironclad is now a separate tech and therefore not as useful as they used to be. This prolongs the usefulness of the MoW no end and you find that the MoW does rule the seas for quite some time now.

 

[slothman]

When I played commercial in vannila I didn't notice a smaller corruption or more money. Does it affect you the same in Conquests?

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Commerical/Agricultural isn't to be discounted either. You get the same nice Commerical/Seafaring bit where one traits helps out of the gate and the other kicks in later. And you get similar stacking, because the cheap aqueducts makes commerical kick in sooner.

 

[meltone1]

Aside from the disadvantage of having to research ironclad separately, there is actually quite a sizeable gap between frigates(MoW's) and Ironclads; and you also have to research steampower and secure a source of coal to build clads as well, which isn't always a given. If you beeline to the tech where you get the MoW, you can have it for quite a while before your opponent is able to research ironclad and actually get them out of the dock. If you in effect force your opponent to waste research time on ironclad because you are dominating the seas with the MoW's, it has served it's purpose. Until they do get them, (if they do) the seas belong to the MoW. (BTW, just in case somebody doesn't know what exactly the MoW does, they have 2 more attack than a normal frigate, an extra bombard strength, and the enslave ability.) The best naval unit IMO. Hmm.. I think i'm gonna start a poll on this..

 

[USC]

Crazy Jerome:

I've noticed, too, that Commercial/Agricultural (Iroquois) has nice synergy -- with extra food and cheap aqueducts, the commerce bonus stops being so "theoretical." I'm playing a huge-map game right now and will reach 0 AD with about 10 cities receiving the bonus. (Due in part, however, to a vast number of rivers and a successful Philosophy gambit... more on that below.) Only problem I've seen is that to really apply that commerce, you have to build infrastructure, which means that it's hard to get your military rolling in time to still send out your Mounted Warriors against spearmen, rather than pikemen. (Of course, if I'd been more careful about whoring governmental techs, my neighbors wouldn't be cranking out the beakers so fast...)

The new Philosophy behavior REALLY helps out seafaring and commercial civs, because any combination, even a fairly ho-hum one, of a) luck, b) skill, and c) a sufficiently low level (I've done it thrice on Emperor!) will let you pull off a Code of Laws --> Philosophy --> Republic gambit. Sure, you end up entering Republic under poor conditions for a Republic (small number of small towns)... but not if you play with an early switch in mind from the start. And it's STILL better than despotism.

USC

 

[ybbor]

Originally posted by meltone1
they have 2 more attack than a normal frigate, an extra bombard strength, and the enslave ability

okay, ary i was going by the PTW, MOW; that sounds prety good, for the record i liked the new traits all along, all of the suden i feel something calling me to lodon...