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How I beat the Mongol Scenario on Deity

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Silverfuturist, Jan 20, 2011.

  1. mintcandy

    mintcandy King

    Apr 10, 2012

    :: shrugs ::

    The benefit for taking down Yellow China early is not having to deal with a Great Wall invasion later when they can actually build credible counters to Keshik swarms.

    It really sucks to have to invade Yellow China with Keshiks when they are fielding Riflemen and Cannon. :p
  2. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    May 20, 2003
    There is some point to delaying the capture of the GW. IIRC, in my 66-turn game I peace-treatied the GW China to hit Japan faster and also peace-treatied the other China too. The GW was always mine returning from Japan but the GW helped the weaker China defend against the bigger China until I could take possession of it. Also, I had an army bypassing Persia to hit Russia. The GW wasn't needed right away.
  3. elijahfire

    elijahfire Chieftain

    Apr 3, 2013
    Still relevant today (as I just used it) these forums are miles better then 2k forums. Not sure why but all the fail trolls hang out there. Anyway thank you Crom.
  4. AI3spearman

    AI3spearman Chieftain

    May 28, 2013
    I had to register an account again just to reply to this thread and thank everyone who has contributed tips and synopses in it. Finally won on Diety, in 93 turns, last night, and I owe it all to this thread.

    Especially Page 6, which gave me the idea to send The Five Tribes (those initial units with the special names) west to conquer Ulghur for the Policy, Almaty for the 2 bonus horsemen, and attack Persia first out of the 8 Civs. Crippled them early by capturing and razing Samarkand, and getting Tabriz and Nishapur surrendered via treaty. Persia was down to its two furthest apart cities and was a non factor after that. It was like they stopped playing. :)

    My previous attempts at this scenario all started with going after Beijing and it was killing me, bogged down in Persia (or India) every time.

    Remembering to make a deal for cash and immediately break it right before declaring war with every Civ and selling buildings from cities as you raze them was important for keeping the gold coming in. Using captured workers as Bait/Suicide Scouts to distract enemy melee units (and provide sight for Indirect Fire-having Keshiks!) also helped a lot.

    But hitting Persia first was the key for me. That and building horsemen, not Keshiks, in Karakorum [and selling the barracks on Turn 1 so they can upgrade entirely as ranged units and not waste that first one on a melee path), and upgrading them cheaply thanks to starting with the cheap upgrades Honor policy. Multitasking was key: The Five Tribes crippled Persia with a 2 city peace treaty and moved on to Russia, then Greece, then Arabia from behind (with Abbasid & Georgia helping) while the second army takes Western Xia (to make itself bigger) and attacks Beijing to get The Great Wall/cripple Jin. Rotating peace treaties allowed me to get Jin down to 1 city, then take Korea early (2nd army was in position to take Liaoyang but Jin surrendered it at the treaty table), then double back with reinforcements from Karakorum to start on China, cripple them with a peace treaty once the one with Jin expires, then finish off Jin.

    For Japan, I split this big army into Vets/N00bs, leaving the latter behind to get in position to finish China -- and upgrade themselves for the eventual assault on India -- once that treaty expired, while the Vets -- 3 of 4 already having Logistics AND Range -- moved through Korea to start bombarding Japan's island city while Korea cashrushed Triremes (and supplementing with pikes and a Longsword; got careless with my city-taking horseman and got it killed).

    Once Wu was done I spent the cash on buying friendship with Dai Viet, as it was quicker/easier than trying to conquer them, so the main army -- 7 Keshiks 1 Horseman 1 Khan -- could eventually attack India from the southeast.

    Bought alliance with Georgia as well as the Abbasids when attacking Arabia, because I had the cash and every unit helps, plus The 5 Tribes were by now my smallest Assault Team (4ke/1h/1ka) and The Crusader States allied with Arabia. [Another bonus to attacking Persia first: when they surrendered cities in treaty, getting Tabriz gave me early contact with these City-States, so when I was ready to fight Arabia I already had the contact and could buy them off.]

    Didn't eliminate anyone until Turn 37 (Russia), but by Turn 89 only one city -- Persia's southernmost -- remained.

    My own addition to the tips in this thread: When beelining your Keshiks to the essential Logistics promotion there are two paths to take: Accuracy 1-2-3 (attack bonus in open territory) and Barrage 1-2-3 (attack bonus in hills, forests, and jungle). I found it was useful to keep a close to even split between Accuracy Keshiks and Barrage Keshiks, especially within an Assault Team. These three promotions stack to a +65% bonus in the respective terrains, twice what you lose do to Unhappiness. It's irrelevant against cities but quite helpful when picking off pikes and muskets to keep your keshiks safe from counterattack.

    Annexed Korea, puppeted Western Xia, Ulghur, and Almaty. Eventually puppeted Crusader States. Allied with Abbasids and Georgia. Had to ally with Hungary for a while for their resources to remove the resource penalty to horses caused by barbarian pillage until my workers could get in position.

    Puppeted both Greek cities, Russian capital, India's 4 cities, Japan's 2 cities on the big island, Cairo, and Persian Capital.

    Annexed Beijing, Liaoyang, Aleppo and Damascus (used these to cash rush Lancers and Muskets to help finish off Cairo), China's coastal cities and Chengdu (was razing it but changed my mind).

    China's other two cities, Jin's Xian and Kaifeng, Japan's city on the two tile island, all of Persia's cities, Novgorod and Vladimir, and Mecca were razed.

    As a nice bonus, a few turns into "Just... One... More... Turn..." the massive unhappiness and barbarian revolts finally led to a city being ransomed, so I picked up the "He Threw A Car At My Head" achievement as well as all the difficulty level Khan Scenario ones.
  5. Monthar

    Monthar Deity

    Mar 28, 2004
    Elmendorf, Tx
    As long as you have the cash to upgrade them as soon as they're built/bought you can do so before having to choose a promotion. Doing this will allow you to pick one of the ranged promotions on the following turn. Thus there's no need to sell the barracks.
  6. mrviking

    mrviking Chieftain

    Sep 5, 2013
    Finally got this one done, thanks to all the tips in the thread. So just wanted to contribute and say that it is doable in BNW as well :)

    Did Japan last and finished on turn 84. One of the breaking things for me was buying the workshop in Beijing as soon as possible which gave me a engineer and a 1 turn Notre Dame around turn 55. Also took Lhasa fast so I could get the trade route happiness in the liberty tree.

    Took all city states except Abbasids (allied) and Dal Viet (ignored). Full Honor policies ofc, then 3 in Liberty and a few turns before the end I got the 3rd in Commerce for 1 extra happiness per luxury.

    Pic or it didn't happen? ;)

    Thanks for all the posts and helpful tips!
  7. Weun

    Weun Chieftain

    Nov 28, 2011
    I finally beat the Mongol scenario on Diety difficulty! It took about 40 attempts, but here's what I did...
    Social policy strategy: Professional Army (so I can afford to convert more horses to Keshiks immediately), then puppet all cities until I get Military Tradition (for the XPs). Policies after that didn't seem to mean much. I went with Commerce and Trade Unions to get cash, but it didn't have much effect. Tradition and Oligarchy might have been better.
    Research strategy: Sailing, Masonry (because it was cheap and in line for Rifling), Construction (for Colisseum), Optics (so I can attack Japan), beeline rifling.
    Build strategy: Keshiks! Until I couldn't build anymore. I never had much money, so I couldn't afford to build horsemen and upgrade them.
    Combat strategy: Take Xia first to get 2 more horses. Take Korea and start barraging Dazaifu with 2 Keshiks to get their XPs up. Rest of army go back and finish Jin, then Wu. Next, go west along silk road, take Persia, then Arabia (ignore India until later because India has a weak army, and it takes too long to backtrack). After Arabia, split my army - some north to Greece (then Russia), some east to India. Meanwhile, my Japan attackers take Dazaifu (which I annex so I can buy troops and triremes). Finally, on turn 97, Japan falls.
    Turn Highlights:
    Turn 0: Meet Jin & Xia, trade w/ Jin for 380gp, then DOW Jin.
    Turns 1-4: Ignore Jin briefly, conquer Western Xia first to get two more horses.
    Turn 5: Jin allies Korea, which DOWs me at turn 5.
    Turn 9: Take Beijing to get Great Wall.
    Turn 14: Conquer Korea so I can have a place to attack Japan from.
    Turn 15: Trade for 428 gp, then DOW Japan, but only attack with two Keshiks to get their XPs up to get double-shot and long range.
    Turn 17: Kill off Jin (Wu had taken one of Jin's cities - Xian).
    Turn 18: Trade for 193 gp, then DOW Wu.
    Turn 35: Finish Wu.
    Turn 37 - Trade for 207 gp, then DOW Persia. I had to do this early because Persia had lot of troops in the silk road. If I had bypassed them, Persia could have taken my cities. Also, I made one of my mistakes here - I bypassed Uighur. I should have conquered them to get their horses.
    Turn 52 - Finished Persia, attacked Abbasids to get their horses, and I need to go through them anyway to reach Arabia. Another mistake - I annexed Urgench thinking I needed to buy troops closer to battle, but Urgech wasn't close to the front lines for long. Should have puppeted Urgench instead.
    Turn 53: Took Abbassids. Trade for 395 gp, then DOW Arabia.
    Turn 55 - After 40 turns of bombardment, finally took small Jap island Dazaifu. This is evidence of another of my mistakes - I should have sent a melee unit to the island several turns earlier.
    Turn 62 - Finished Arabia. Split army into two: one to north to attack Greece, one to east to attack India.
    Turn 64 - Trade for 72 gp, then DOW Greece.
    Turn 67 - Trade for 224 gp, then DOW India.
    Turn 75 - Finish Greece.
    Turn 78 - Trade for 265 gp, then DOW Russia.
    Turn 90 - Finish India. Took free tech - rifling.
    Turn 91 - 36 turns after taking Dazaifu, I finally took Kyoto. Riflemen turned out to not really be important. The real key was putting a couple of Lancers on the island several turns earlier. The riflemen got to Japan so late, they were only involved in a couple of battles.
    Turn 92 - Finish Russia.
    Turn 97 - Finish Japan - VICTORY!!!

    Attached Files:

  8. project_mercy

    project_mercy Chieftain

    Sep 17, 2013
    I've played this one a lot recently. This is probably my favorite of all the scenarios. The best I've done so far is finish on turn 70. I'm not exactly sure how to get it much sooner than that. I've tried a few odd strats, but they all come out to be in that area.

    As with most games, your opening 10 turns or so are pretty important. I will say there are a few fundamentally important things you understand, irrelevant of what strategy you end up using. Or, maybe a better way to say it is, you need to take these things into account when laying out a strategy.

    1. Jin will start making Siamese Elephants around turn 30. They're OP normally, and overly so in this scenario. Jin needs to die before the elephants come out.
    2. Arabia has an immense amount of Cash, and has to deal with Greece and Persia's warmonger ways, and so given time they will have a huge army. If you don't get into that area before turn 50, you're going to get stuck into a slog
    3. It will take at least 30 turns from the point you think you might start doing something about japan before you can actually finish off japan.
    4. The only GOOD way into india is with an open borders treaty. Since he's unlikely to grant this once he realize you're a genocidal madman, you will need to get some troops inside of India before the treaty expires.

    As for strategy, here's what I generally do. I'm not convinced it's the best one, it's just what I've traditionally done. These tactics assume you opt for the "try to stay somewhat happy" method.

    In explanation, there's two thoughts to this scenario. The first is to keep every city you capture and garrison it with troops to deal with the barbarians. You will be at a permanent -33% to your damage as a result. This is livable, but worse is the fact you will get "revolts" every few turns that pop out barbarians. These aren't a huge deal, except they'll head straight for your iron/horses and pillage them. This stacks an additional -50% to your damage, which is too much. As a result, I prefer to strive to stay above -20 happiness. So, the basis for the following tips assumes you'll attempt to do this. If you choose the other route, caveat emptor.

    The first turns are primarily about acquiring Keshik. You really only need 1 horseman to take cities, and a pile of Keshik. You will get two free horseman for taking Western Xia and Almanty. Unfortunately they have nothing else useful, and so you'll take happyness penalties for holding them, and you will need to protect the pastures.

    If you're unfamiliar with them, keshik are movement 5, can move after attacking and have a pretty strong ranged attack. This means that you can park a bunch of them outside of the city's attack range, pop in, shoot the city, and then pop out. It takes a little practice to get it down, but after a while you can basically drop a city in a turn or two. This speeds up when you get Logistics (two attacks). Just make sure the horseman is within range and has a path to cap the city when the time comes. You should basically NEVER be getting attacked. If you're taking damage from anyone, you're doing something wrong. The occasional troop may clip one of your keshik, but pull that one back and let it heal. Opt for killing troops over shooting cities if you have too. A dead keshik is wasted turns, and healing is wasted turns.

    Your first policy should be the additional XP. You want to go straight up one of the attack bonuses (open or rough) and then get Logistics (double attack). At least any keshik you start with before about turn 25. After that, grab the bonus city damage when it's first available.

    Tech wise, you should be reasearching up towards Astronomy. You'll use the free tech boosts later on for astronomy and navigation. You may get education out of it too, depending on your timing. After that, head up towards crossbowmen and longswordsmen. They're handy in Japan.

    It's best to avoid taking cities you can't directly use and that you can't raze. This primarily means city-states and capitols. If the city state doesn't have an astoundingly compelling reason to take it (aka, horses) then you probably shouldn't. Even then, I skip Uighur (though it has horses and iron). The only city I ever keep that can be razed is Liaoyang. There's on in Arabia that's questionablly OK, but by then it doesn't seem worth the effort.

    My opening turns generally go like this, shoot down in the first move with a horseman and scout western xia and meet Jin. Sell him everything you have but 2 horses for 290 gold. Use this gold to upgrade your other horseman to keshik. Use your two workers to first upgrade the sheep and mountain next to Kharakorum, then build a road down to the silk road. Use your army to take Western Xia. If you can, grab the worker while you're at it. If everything goes well, you can grab the worker and cap it by the end of turn 3.

    Of the 4 keshik, khan and 1 horseman you had, take the keshik, khan and one of the new horsemen you got and head west to Almaty. I prefer to run up the road to Uighur then take the hills through Uighur. They'll get upset, but it doesn't matter. You come out on the NE side of Almaty and you shouldn't have hit Persia yet. They will probably have allied with Almaty, but since they haven't met you yet, they won't declare war when you attack.

    Head the damaged horseman you used to capture X. Xia up towards Karakhorum and let him heal, also upgrade the 2nd horseman to a keshik.

    Now that you have W. Xia, if you haven't met china, do so. Sell western Xia to either Jin or China. You have excess horses from Kharakorum, so you don't need them for now. The important thing is to ditch it. a.) it's negative happiness you don't need b.) it's a weakness for the AI in the future and c.) It's additional cities they will fight over while you're busy. Use the Cash to buy another Keshik. Sometimes it pays to wait a turn or two for one of them to build up some cash. It's a fine line because they use all their (prodigious) GPT to pay off city-states. So you have to time it some. Try to get your troops out of it before you sell it, else they'll hit you with a "move your troops" nag. While standing is somewhat irrelevant, it will impact the gold you can wheeled out of them in the future.

    If you capture the worker, then send him down the silk road to the north entrance to India. In theory you should run into an indian unit. Get an open borders treaty. He will probably want money for it, which is fine. Whatever he wants is cheap in the long run. Build a road through the mountains into india. If you don't capture the worker, you probably want to take one of your two starting workers to do this. You need that road built.

    You should quickly cap Almaty. This basically starts the point where you have two armies. You have to be careful about making sure your units don't die. Generally this isn't an issue except against fighting persia, due to his extra movement for golden age, and because there's so many roads. I'll call the two groups "army A and B". It's likely you'll have generated another Khan by now, so it should be back in Karakorum.

    Upgrade the two horseman you got from Almaty to keshik. You now have those 3, plus maybe the 1 you bought for selling W. Xia, and the initial horseman you let heal. It's now time to deal with Jin and China. Here it depends somewhat on if they're still at war or not, But you need to take Beijing. ASAP, to get rid of the Great Wall penalties. Movement is your only saving grade, and the great wall is a huge damper on that.

    The city to the right of Beijing, Liaoyang, is the one razeable city that I don't raze. You will need this to produce the triremes you need to upgrade to frigates to take Japan. It also has horses, iron, and gold, so it's not terrible.

    From here, the flow is basically up to you. Buy more Keshik as gold and horses are available and split them between the two armies. You will probably also want to buy archers or scouts to garrison in any cities you do keep. This has two advantages, it gives you +1 happiness and it lets you deal with barbarians trying to steal your horses. I always keep a worker on hand to fix any that get destroyed. You'll have no shortage of free workers.

    The general Idea for quickly doing this is to push hard into the weaker cities for any civ. If you push hard and fast enough, you should be able to take and raze a few cities. When you can push for peace do it, and try to get all the AI's cities (besides there capitol) and some gold and GPT. This is why it's best to try to avoid being flagged as a backstabber or genocide early, as it facilitates them making deals.

    If you do it right You should be able to rock Persia and Jin quickly, and leave them with just their capitol. In the case of Jin, His capitol will be pushed one city south since you took Beijing. From here you basically have a few choices, which is what order do you push into China, India, and Arabia. China and Arabia can generate huge armies and have tough units. India is a pushover, but it's awkward to get in and out of. I usually delay Arabia to push India with Army A. Take the road you built in, push through to the southern pat of India, then declare war. Ghandi is prone to deals. Sometimes you can just take 1 city and threaten another and he'll give you all his remaining cities.

    Move on to China and Arabia. Depending on your standing with China and her general mood, she may not be willing to give cities in a peace deal. It's mostly a wash here at this point. If she does it early enough, and you can get 2-3 cities out of it, it's worth it. Otherwise, just wipe her out. Then wipe Jin out, then take Army B and go back and wipe out India. You should be building Triremes at this point. With all the civs getting wiped out, you're getting 1k gold and a tech upgrade. China's capitol has 8 iron, and you have iron from other sources, so you should have enough to upgrade triremes to Frigates by now. I generally shoot for 8. I also generally build a few swordsman/longswordsmen to act as meatshields. You will need something other than frigates to knock down the city. If you can spare them, keshik work great. Otherwise if you've researched crossbowmen you can use those. If you take Korea, you will get 2 free crossbowmen, but I find korea is a waste of happiness and time, so I usually leave it.

    Once Army B finishes up with india and persia's capitol, head up towards Russia. Army A will finish off Arabia and Greece. Army C is functionally your frigates and anything else you can throw at japan.

    In closing, there's basically two cheap tricks/exploits you can use to make this scenario easier. If you're unfamiliar with them, they are:

    1. Before you go to war with someone, sell them all your GPTs, and any resources you have for all their cash. When you declare war, the deal is instantly voided, but you keep all the cash you got
    2. At the start of your turn, all deals currently in action are validated to see if you can still do them. This means that if a deal included a luxury that has gone away, the deal is broken. This means you can sell people a pile of luxuries, and just make sure that the deal includes a luxury that exists ONLY in a city that is about to disappear because it's down to 1 population and being razed. It's important to note that this won't work if the luxury exists somewhere else in your empire, as it will pull from your luxuries before it breaks the deal. You will still get 1 turn of penalty for it, since the razing happens after the deal validation.

    You are not required to use these tricks to do this scenario. They make it easier, but by no means are they necessary. In fact, later on if you got good GPT deals on peace settlements, the cash is mostly handy to rob the AI of the ability to buy more troops, than it is you actually needing the gold.

    Anyway, there you go.
  9. Pgh player

    Pgh player Chieftain

    Sep 14, 2013
    I achieved the Genghis Khan achievement for winning the Mongol scenario on deity. It took me 97 turns. I roughly followed the plan described on this board by DutchEnginner who did it much more efficiently in 74 turns.

    I am an experienced player and was able to keep pace with his plan for Army#1 - actually taking Beijing, Liaoyang and Korean more quickly than he did.

    But army #2 was another story. I took Almaty on turn 21 (vs 15), Samarkland on turn 30 (vs 20) and Urgenich on 39 (vs27). When Persia offered a peace treaty they offered me no free cities. I would love to know how he accomplished so much so fast with army #2. Mine lacked promotion experience and was fighting with unhappiness penalties due to the pace of army #1.

    While I am not in dutchengineer’s league, I do offer two tactical suggestions.

    1) After you take a highly populated capital you can sell it to a far away power and then DOW them and immediately retake it . You get some sales proceeds, you will gain experience for the Keshiks, and it will cut the capital’s population roughly in half to help control overall unhappiness. If you mange it properly it won’t even waste a whole turn since Keshiks can shoot from a distance to easily retake the city and then move on to the next destination. Remember that when you trade the city away your troops will be immediately pushed outside the boundary at no movement penalty. I did this with the capital of Southern China via a trade with Japan and with the capital of India via a trade with Russia.

    2) I had a long war with India and Russia during a time when I had no close contact with them and I was busy with other conquests. This benefited me since eventually they amassed an army and ventured out to get me. Their armies were easily destroyed when they ventured out. So my advice is not to be too eager to accept peace offerings. Perpetual war with distant enemies will bring them to you.

    My biggest screw-ups were that I would forget to sell buildings in conquered cites that I was razing. I followed the advice to buy a workshop in Beijing towards getting an Engineer around turn 50 in order to build Notre Dame to fight unhappiness. But I forgot to click on the workshop to assign a specialist so the Engineer was still getting made at only one unit per turn. Doh!
  10. Santa Maria

    Santa Maria Warlord

    Aug 31, 2011
    Yeah also won on Deity - 89 turn win. Also followed the plan described by dutchengineer and with help from all who posted on this thread and MD's Mongol scenario review.

    So I went for Uighur first - Turn3 conquest, then WXia Turn7, raced with 5 Keshik and 1 Horse to Almaty (Turn 13). So on turn 13 I had 2 armys the Army Alpha was 4 Horse->Keshiks (from Almaty+WXia conquest)+ 2 Horse built in the capital.

    So Alpha went then for Beijing - Liyaoyang - Korea (Turn 25). Bravo went for Persia then both Georgia and Abbassids - Arabia - Greece - Russia. Alpha aftet Korea -> Jin - rest of green China - India - Russia. Around turn 60 started to buy Triremes in Korea and China capitol - upgraded to frigates and with about 6 brand new Keshiks bought in capitol went for Japan - had about 12 Frigates.

    All civs fell pretty easily to high promoted Keshiks - just was a bit slower then others but Russia was the last. Japan fell easily to those frigates.

    I think it's important to start with Uighur then WXia and Almaty and get 2 armys right from the start. Capital builds Horses right away - chopped forests and immidiately upgraded. India needs to be attacked from the east - it's easy from that side. I ignored happiness got many rebels, but I just made sure my horses are protected, everything else got pillaged. There is room for a 3rd army at turn 40ish. But overall need to approach some cities from the right direction like Isfahan from the south, Beijing from the north and so on - it's easy then.

    So that's about it for this one.
  11. Santa Maria

    Santa Maria Warlord

    Aug 31, 2011
    So with the better knowledge of the map and of what to do -> 67 turn Deity win.

    I did the following:

    Immidiately head to Uighur with 2 Horses and 2 Kshiks - upgraded 1 Horse to Keshik for 100 gold right away. 1 Horse goes to WXia and meets Jin and China. Sell what you can to Jin. Conquer Uighur T3 to finish Honor and upgrade 2 Horses. In the capital build Horses right away chop all 3 forests and production focus. WXia conqured on turn 7, heading with 5 Keshiks, Khan and Horse straight to Almaty. Almaty on T13 and the new 4 Horses upgraded -> 5 Keshiks and 1 Horse and newborn Khan take Beijing T16 from the north. Samarkand fell also T16. Then 2 new Horses upgraded and joined each army to have 6 Kshks and 1 Horse in each army. Persia offered all non capital cities for 10 turn peace I accept T21. Korea fell T24.

    On Kshks always logistics first, then Siege, Range, Indirect fire and March in that order. India fell around T58.

    Army Alpha -> Beijing, Korea, rest of Jin, green China - getting logistics siege on each Kshk and heading for India. Entering India from the east it's easy from that side.

    Army Bravo -> Persia, Georgia, Abbasids, Urgench (last Persian city), Arabs, Byzantines, Russia.

    Army Charlie T35 -> Chengdu, Russia

    Annexed Korea and China capital -> buying a Trireme each turn in each of them (first buying Barracks in Korea and China capital) Getting 17 Triremes on turn 55. T58 as India falls getting Navigation and ugrading -> 17 Frigates heading for Japan. Buying a LS to take Japanese cities.

    Finnishing off Russia and Japan simultaneously on T67.

    The thing is going straight for all the Horse cities as Uighur, WXia, Almaty, Liaoyiang, Aleppo and Crusader States to create 3 armys consisting of 6 Kshks and a Khan and a Horse as soon as possible T35.

    Ignored happinnes -> Scouts, XB and Pikes defending Horse tiles and have a worker nearby for repair. Policy - finishing Honor immidiately and then right side of commerce for cheap purchasing of triremes and Kshks.

    And that's how an under T70 win is done, so key is having 2 armys rolling immidiately (T13) and 3rd asap.

    My army headcount on T67:
    - 2 XB
    - 17 Frigates
    - 4 Horses
    - 19 Kshks
    - 1 LS
    - 5 Pikes
    - 8 Scouts
  12. _EL_

    _EL_ Chieftain

    Feb 18, 2014
    Damn!! Just did it!! Thx for the tips!! Theyre were a huge help. Part of my gaming was right so those tips made the game easy easy!

    So, I have my contribuition too. Pretty much all that Santa Maria said is true and true lol. But I realized soon enough that 100 turns was not enough time to complete the game taking EVERY city. Ok "duh" I get it. BUT, to know wich cities will make other civs give up their cities is key. "Just go for the capital" is not enough for some civs.
    Some take overs described by Santa Maria I managed to to in fewer turns. Others II just couldnt.

    All that I'm about to say was what saved turns on the game, along with the already said by Santa Maria. Not in chronological order. Those fellow gamers that have been trying for a while (like me lol) will know when those tips will take place.

    To prove what was said about ignoring the happiness, I annexed every city in the game. When the game was over (T87) I was on -260 lol. This made it dififcult to aquire new policies. This might be the reason the game took longer!. Not sure.

    Oh I forgot! T67! That was a fast game. Congratz on that one!

    As Santa Maria said, having pikeman on horse tiles and archers on horse cities did the trick. Actually, it made the rebels go for the useless cities since none of them were razed or guarded.

    About the useless cities. Whenever some civ that was in war with me aproached one one of them, I just put it to raze and buy some cheap troop to buy time for the razing process. This kind of diverts the attention of the AI. While they are trying to take useless cities I'm having an easier job taking theirs. Happened with Arabia and India.

    Some savior peace treaties will not be offered to the player. I tried and went "DAFUQ" when the AI said yes. They are:

    Spoiler :

    Yellow China:
    Take the capital just after WX. They might offer a peace treaty giving u Llaoyang (horse city). If they dont, offer the deal and they will take it. Opened borders was required too.

    Wait until green china takes it. THEN take it.

    This makes possible the following:

    While in peace with opened borders with yellow china, head for green china's capítal and take it. Green china will give up all other cities with only Chengdu left. This was a huge time saver. Peace with green china allows "make peace button" with CS along the way to take India.

    I prefered to post it with spoiler alert because IDK if it was posted already. I read all the thread but I might have missed it.
    I remembered this was said already: Persia gave me all their cities after taking their capital and then Samarkand (reversed other just for fun lol, but I found out it to be a lil easier this way). Only Tabriz left for Persia.

    There was no peace with Arabia, Russia, Bizantines or India. No free cities from them :(. Well, impossible with Bizantines anyway since they have only 2 cities lol.
    Not worthy with Russia too since they have 3 cities only.
    It would have saved time with Arabia tough. Idk if Arabia gives cities on peace treatty. I tried with no success.
    After Abbasids I went for Arabia since (on my previous attempts) they were a huge pain in the ass. It was worth it.
    I completely ignored Georgia.
    After taking green china's capital I went straight for India throught East. Took a damn while since their cities heal like f&*k.

    Not razing the cities helpd on India. With the money I bought troops close to the combat aerea.
    Selling buildings on useless cities helped save money. Since I annexed everything, it was just a matter of point and click. I forgot to sell a few. Someone said something about those cities that gave me this idea: Raze them until they're are just one turn away from being cleared. If any civ comes by trying to take it, I just finish razing it. Happened with Arabia.

    Some troops that eliminated Persia reinforced those on Bizantines. SOme went for Russia. Same with India. One elite trooper from India went to reinforce Japan. But the frigates made it easy. Rifling too.

    So I had to go to war with a lot of big civs while trying to eliminate first green china (only chengdu left) then Persia (only Tabriz left) with the same army. So 3 simultaneous armies ASAP as described works. Thats why we gotta loose a few turnes taking the horse cities.

    I hope to help and I am sorry for the big post lol. Next scenario only with next vacation hehe.

    Congratz on the beautiful T67 win Santa Maria. I might get there one day!.

    Cheers everyone.
  13. killmeplease

    killmeplease Mk Z on Steam

    Nov 22, 2007
    turn 67? good job...

    i havent got the achievement yet but i believe the game is already desided. it's late 40s and i have both china civs, india, persia and most of arabia conquered. keshiks got full promotion and started steamrolling enemys taking 1-2 cities each turn.

    i ignore happiness and puppet everything and have ~120 red faces now, rebels spawn but do almost no harm. as i didnt raze cities i have a good income from road connections and trading posts (~150 per turn), also having lead in science (got rifling already and now teching to frigates).

    what i did:
    1. took W.Xia then Jin's capital, horse city and the rest. while conquering "green China", sent 3 newly built/bought keshiks, horseman and khan to take Uighur and Almaty.
    2. after china was finished, sent another command of 3 keshiks, horseman and khan to take southern city states and india. main force as well as some pikes given by one of the captured city states travelled to Persia. Persia was very hard with its 3-move pikes, i used own pikes to zoc them but mine died very fast. then Arabia attacked Persia and it got much easier. never signed pease.

    upgrade path: acc/barr 1-3, double attack, march, siege, range, indirect, barr/acc
    policies: +50% XP, cheaper upgrades, commerse, -33% road maint, 25% rushbuying discount, +1 move/sight for naval units
    growing an engineer is a great idea, my mistake i didnt do this. if i did, i'd build a Machu Picchu (+25% gold from connections)

    some tips:
    1. expose keshiks to city/archer bombardment if there are no pikes nearby and you will XP much faster. march promotion will help to heal (3 hp per turn with khan!).
    2. bribe other civs to attack each other.
    3. guard your horse resources! 1 fortified ls/pike seems enough.
  14. Pyr1t3

    Pyr1t3 Chieftain

    Oct 31, 2011
    I suppose I should probably try this again when I have the time. (I beat it on Deity already, but it was inefficient.) Seems like it might be better to take Uighur first in order to finish Honour off early, because the first ~20 turns are hell on your economy and you need to get those Keshiks out the gate as quickly as possible.

    EDIT: Whoops, I did take Uighur first during my playthrough. Heheh.:shifty:
  15. Meister Maggi

    Meister Maggi Warlord

    Jul 16, 2007
    First, thanks for all the helpful comments in the previous messages.

    Once I realized how much the -33% for excessive unhappiness descreased the effectiveness of the Keshiks, I tried to win by avoiding the -10 :mad: barrier as often as possible. One simple trick is, of course, to take cities only at the end of the turn, so that the increase in unhappiness does not affect your remaining forces. Still, this requires that you are below that value. The key idea is to conquer only what is necessary and raze almost everything you can: almost no city state has a luxury ressource which does not appear at any capital (you cannot raze); the same holds for most other cities - exceptions are wine, gold, pearls, and whales, which is why you may keep one of the cities with such a ressource (I kept Lioyang with gold as a basis for the invasion to Japan and Crusader States with wine to have space for the attack on Cairo). The only other city states I took were Western Xia and Almaty for the bonus horsemen. In particular, for this strategy, it is of little use to conquer cultural city states to get further social policies to improve happiness, if keeping these additional cities cancels these benefits.

    My progress was by no means perfect, but shows that this is a valid strategy in comparison to conquering all and not caring about unhappiness, in fact the one with the fastest documented finish in this thread (and without a stupid mistake during the invasion of Japan, it could have been turn 64, and a better science strategy could improve this even further). I name the three forces, each consisting of 4 keshiks and 1 horseman, in order of appearence of their generals Genghis, Mongke, Kublai.

    Turn 0: get cash from Jin (yellow china - sell all you have) and declare war (and like that before any war declaration)
    3: Genghis conquers Western Xia
    4: Western Xia is sold to China (green) plus ressources for over 1000 gold. Uighur is bought as an ally (thus finishing the next social policy around turn 16)
    8: Genghis captures Almaty
    10: On contact with India buy open borders; war on Persia (Genghis)
    12: Mongke captures Beijing, Genghis Samarkand; war on China (to get back the gold ressource)
    16: Genghis captures Urgench
    17: peace with Persia in exchange for Nishapur and Tabriz; Mongke captures Kaifeng
    18: peace with Jin in exchange for Lioyang
    22: Mongke captures Xiangyang
    24: war on India (Genghis)
    25: Mongke captures Tanzhou
    26: Genghis captures Varanasi
    28: Mongke captures Guangzhou
    29: peace with China in exchange for Chengdu, war on Jin (Mongke)
    30: Genghis captures Dehli
    31: Mongke captures Xian - Jin finished
    34: Genghis captures Lahore
    36: Genghis captures Multan - India finished
    38: war on Russia (Mongke), war on Persia (Genghis)
    41: war on China (Kublai)
    42: Mongke captures Vladimir, Genghis Isfahan - Persia finished
    43: ally Abbassids, war on Arabia (Genghis)
    44: Kublai captures Western Xia (from China)
    46: Mongke captures Kiev
    47: war on Byzantium (to attack the forces that were attacking Kiev)
    49: Genghis captures Damascus
    50: Kublai captures Hangzhou - China finished, ally Korea, war on Japan (Kublai)
    53: Genghis captures Aleppo
    54: Mongke captures Novgorod - Russia finished (now attack Byzantium from both sides)
    56: Notre Dame in Beijing, Kublai captures Dazaifu
    57: Constantinople captured (mainly Genghis)
    58: Thessalonica captured (Genghis and Mongke) - Byzantium finished
    59: Crusader States captured (G&M)
    61: Mecca captured (G&M)
    62: Kyoto captured (Kublai)
    63: Kairo captured (G&M) - Arabia finished
    65: Kamakuro captured (Kublai) - Japan finished

    Spoiler :

  16. killmeplease

    killmeplease Mk Z on Steam

    Nov 22, 2007
    Meister Maggi, impressive!
    did you lost any keshiks?
    i found it quite hard to keep out of reach of persian 3-move spears/pikes or knights in russia and advance fast at the same time
  17. _EL_

    _EL_ Chieftain

    Feb 18, 2014
    I guess staying above -10 happy gives the edge of more effective combat troops. That makes sense since u needed only 4 kshks armies instead of 6. AND the game gets quicker since less troops are needed. Congratz (I might try that strategy of urs :D)
  18. Meister Maggi

    Meister Maggi Warlord

    Jul 16, 2007
    yes, I lost two keshiks, one in Russia to a pike and one in the waters around Japan, both were surely avoidable, but this time it would not have made much of a difference. Frigates are the key to Japan, and I made some teching mistakes, so I had to wait a few turns in Russia to finish the last city.

    I did not see any knights apart from two for crusader states, which were one-shot-mincemeat for the highly promoted keshiks. Regarding Persia, since I attacked early I did not face any pikes and Samarkand and Urgench can be attacked off-street (from northeast and east resp.); two cities were offered, and Isfahan was attacked from the south-east, again no streets - which is also the key for Russia: stay away from the streets while attacking.
  19. Meister Maggi

    Meister Maggi Warlord

    Jul 16, 2007
    It seems so, even though others achieved victories at turn 66 or 67 in the past ignoring happiness, and I have no idea how close they were to the optimum.

    Also, there were a few turns were I passed the barrier (starting two raze two full-sized Persian offers takes its toll), but often troops were moving then (from Persia to India, or later from China to Russia), where it did not matter much (the worst I had was -19, after rush-buying one or two happiness buildings).
  20. _EL_

    _EL_ Chieftain

    Feb 18, 2014
    Nice timing. And I just finished reading the Khan's biography by John Mann and I'm amazed about this scenario was well made. Manny aproaches, all effective but some beautiful to execute. Just like the real Khan had to do, off course in a larger scale :D

    That book is a nice reading folks. I recommend.

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