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How I beat the Mongol Scenario on Deity

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Silverfuturist, Jan 20, 2011.

  1. Kraken98

    Kraken98 Chieftain

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    How do I post a savegame, I'd like to be able to, as I need some advice on what to do next, it's turn 68, I've destroyed both Chinas, finishing them turn 38, my happiness isn't too bad, less than 10 unhappiness, if I remember right, getting very little GPT, I've subjugated 6 CSes, Almaty and the one next to it, both of the ones just SW of green China, plus West Xian and Korea, I got the first two Persian cities on the Silk Road plus their Capital, I've begun surrounding Darius's most southerly city, I'm facing a few pikers and archers between Almaty and the CS to the East, though I got a veteran Keshik well in hand, and a couple Japs decided to land north of Korea. However, if someone could tell me how to upload a savegame for peer review, I'd be most grateful.

    Thanks again! :D
     
  2. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    To post a game save file, you can use the attachments button on the ribbon bar (select Go Advanced) or Manage Attachments (below the message box), locate the save file to upload (should be in your Civ 5 Saves/Single folder) and go from there. If the save file is too large, you can zip the save file and upload the zip file (the forum has higher file size limits for zipped files). Or you can upload the save file to a file sharing site (e.g., Dropbox) and insert a link in your message using [url] tags.
     
  3. Kraken98

    Kraken98 Chieftain

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    K, here's an updated save, although, if you guys think it'll be impossible to complete the mission within the time constraints, I've got some autosaves I could upload. :)

    Differences from last one, Persia's down to one last city, I've pumped out another 3 or 4 rookie Keshiks very recently, I just now dipped into Very Unhappy-ness, India lost its easternmost city, all CSes are perma-warred (not sure if it was that way before) am at war with all, ripped off Arabia after finding out he would DoW me the next turn. I think Cathy sent just about her entire army over to the two adjacent CSes on the Silk Road between Persia and my Capital.

    Any help in completing this scenario in time would be greatly appreciated. :)
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Meister Maggi

    Meister Maggi Warlord

    Joined:
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    I retried this following the idea described in my first long post winning in turn 65. The basic changes this time besides better knowing the map were to avoid running around off the streets while travelling to the next victim, not to loose time with plundering tiles, and a better science strategy. This meant that I only used two armies, Genghis for the everything in the west and Mongke for everything in the southeast (i.e., both Chinas and Japan). To be able to do that, the western force grew from the initial 4+1 (Keshik+Horseman) to 8+1, and the achieved result shows that trying to avoid the combat penalty of unhappiness is though being more difficult to manage probably the fastest way to achieve victory.

    Just a few highlights of the rush:

    - Western Xia conquered and sold, Uighur allied, Almaty conquered at turn 9 (only), but Samarkand at turn 11 already and Bejing in the east at the same turn; from that on everything got faster and faster (compared to the previous attempt) - the faster you reach one opponent the weaker he is...
    - Persia surrendered all cities but Isfahan in Turn 16 (brief peak to -18 :mad:)
    - Turn 20: war on India after moving Genghis east of Multan (with open borders)
    - Turn 27: India defeated
    - Turn 32: Persia defeated
    - Turn 34: war on Arabia after moving Genghis east of Mecca (with open borders)
    - Turn 36: China defeated (brief peak to -36 :mad:)
    - Turn 41: both Jin and Arabia defeated
    - Turn 44: Byzantium defeated -> Frigates for Japan available
    - Turn 50: Japan defeated
    - Turn 51: Russia defeated

    That could have been Turn 50 if my additional horseman had not been sunk in the Black Sea by Barbarians... in any case, much faster is probably really difficult. :king:
     
  5. Kraken98

    Kraken98 Chieftain

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    Thanks Meister Maggi for your overview, however, I worked awful hard to get to this point, I don't want to throw it away in a restart, plus there's something to be said for carrying something through to the end. If you have tips relating to this particular savegame, please let me know.

    Thanks again, MM

    Spoiler :
    I suspect though that if I get to frustrated with this bugger of a scenario, I'll come back to look at your strategy for a restart ;)
     
  6. Meister Maggi

    Meister Maggi Warlord

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    Sorry, my reply was more to the thread and a continuation of a previous reply trying to improve an already very good result a bit further (which I belief worked out alright ;)).

    I can't open your save right now and all my plays of this scenario where over by this turn, so it is difficult to judge for me. Anyway, my impression is, the later you arrive to an adversary, the more (and more advanced) units he/she has: in my first finished game I went to Russia in the mid30s turns and they had horses and pikes. In my second attempt, I went there (last) in the mid40s turns and they had quite a few longswords due to the iron of the city state in Europe (which I bought off before declaring war…). Similar, in India, the second faster run, I faced virtually no pikes but only spearmen and elephants. In consequence, I would expect quite some resistance in Arabia, Byzantium, Russia, and Japan.

    It seems to me though that you slowed down a bit after conquering both chinas at turn 38. What happened? Did you spend all the time attacking the city states or is Persia that strong meanwhile?

    In any case, I am not saying that my strategy is the only one (as you can see in other previous posts) but what seems to be crucial is to get up a second army quickly, that's why the initial army with Genghis attacks Western Xia and Almaty first. This way, by turn 8/9 I have two complete armies available (4 Keshiks+1Horseman each). Regarding the other city states, you may either ally Uighur or conquer it (to finish you Honor policy tree), but all other city states are purely optional. I like to ally Abbasids and Korea, and conquer Crusader States (because it partially blocks access to Cairo), the others I ignore. But there is no need to go for those southwest of green china - they only delay you and add additional unhappiness in exchange for some cash or a social policy you do not really need.
     
  7. Kraken98

    Kraken98 Chieftain

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    This is my second try for RotM, my first try, I figured that I'd largely ignore the CSes, along with the resulting unhappiness, decreased amount of gold, greater road maintenance, etc. I wound up conquering both Chinas by Round 70 with absolutely nothing else to show for it, when I decided to call it a day, and save the game, I discovered I'd merely been playing on Prince!

    I learned a lot from my mistakes and got a LOT more efficient at using Keshiks, and as you can see, I've actually gotten a lot more done with better cash flow and SP's on a harder level. However, I just can't seem to get much more efficient.

    So, since I'd failed so miserably without conquest of CSes before, I think I kinda went overboard on them, but it definitely accelerated my subjugation so far, and yes, Persia was Beast once I got to it they had a few archer-line units, don't remember what exactly they were, a couple of knights, and a BOATLOAD of pikemen, it didn't help the buggers were enjoying a Golden Age, it IS Persia after all.

    Also, I'm really not having too much trouble with India right now, I conquered his eastern city pretty quickly, I've got a road through one of the Southern CSes, clear to that Indian city, and in the western portion, I have a veteran Keshik trashing the troops there, keeping them tied down, while simultaneously whittling them away, you know? Mostly the problem hasn't been difficulty, just sheer numbers take a while to slog through, I haven't lost a single unit all game long! :)

    Thanks again for your advice MM, and congrats on your T51 win, that's stunning!
     
  8. Kraken98

    Kraken98 Chieftain

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    Hey, MM, how'd you get that Savior-deal out of Persia, do you have to take a certain city or what? I think that it'd greatly speed up my conquest. :)
     
  9. Meister Maggi

    Meister Maggi Warlord

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    All I do is conquer and raze Samarkand and conquer Urgench and destroy all Persian units around the cities without own losses, and all this very quick - it is not guaranteed to work, but others have achieved them same before, so it should be repeatable.
     
  10. PeterJohn

    PeterJohn Chieftain

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    Meister Maggi -Interesting how similar the start of my game was to yours. I got victory on Turn 46, about 5 turns before your Turn 51 victory. I think you are right though - not much room for any significant improvement in victory speed on Diety level.

    One thing that seemed to help speed me up was selling captured cities if needed to avoid the 10 unhappiness penalty. Recapturing those cities is cake late in game.

    Some highlights of my rush:

    - Turn 03 - Western Xia captured, sold to Wu for 880 gold, and buy back 1H for 45 gold.
    - Turn 04 - Recapture Western Xia (to get my silver and horses back)
    - Turn 08 - Uighur captured, sold to India
    - Turn 11 - Almaty captured, sold to India; Beijing captured
    - Turn 13 - Samarkand captured, sold to India
    - Turn 30 - war started with Japan with 3 keshiks landing on north part of island
    - Turn 46 - with armies posted outside numerous cities, I captured Thessalonica, Almaty, Varanasi, Hangzhou, Dazaifu, Urgench, and Kiev to win the game. (Almaty, Hangzhou, and Urgench were all recaptures from previously capturing and selling those cities.)

    By selling the 2 captured city-states to India early on and buying the horse resources back from them as needed, I was able to keep my unhappiness low the entire game. Also by sending 3 keshiks from my northern China force (once Jin was defeated completely) to land on the northern part of the main Japanese island, I was able to take over Japan without needing to wait for frigates. The rest of the forces that took out Jin helped finish off South China and then after that went over to India. Russia was able to be conquered with just a force of 4K+1H (only 1 upgrade from barracks each) easily.
     
  11. _EL_

    _EL_ Chieftain

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    When I finally get to do it under a 100 turns... some guys show up and manage to do it in almost HALF turns lol. So humiliating hehe
     
  12. Chef Raewkwon

    Chef Raewkwon Chieftain

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    After ten restarts, I finally beat the Mongol scenario on Deity as well. A big thank you to all contributors in this thread because most of you definitely helped me achieve this victory.

    Beat the scenario at turn 87. Made few small mistakes so no doubt I could finish this about 10 turns earlier, but I don't see myself coming back to this scenario in the near future. Mind boggling to see people finish this in 50 or so turns, no idea how to achieve a victory that soon!

    Key elements of my victory:

    * Always fleece major civs before attacking.
    * I did Western Xia first. After capping W. Xia, my army sans horseman moved west towards Almaty. Capped that one around the 10 turn mark.
    * The new army gets upgraded to Keshiks and take Beijing around turn 19-20.
    * Samarkand falls around turn 15-17, capital around turn 20. After that, sue Darius for his remaining 2 cities.
    * Capping an early worker from W. Xia or Jin is essential. Let him build a small road from the Silk Road to India. Get open borders with Ghandi asap. Move your Persian army through the small hill terrain into India.
    * India falls extremely easy, often within 10 turns.
    * Finish Persia.
    * At the eastern front, kill Jin, kill green China and attempt to get Astronomy and Navigation techwise. My two most upgraded Keshiks are saved for Japan, the rest of the eastern army goes to Russia.
    * Western army attacks Arabia. Allying the Abbassids was crucial as they provided a safe haven and extra support against the city states allied with Arabia and Arabia itself.
    * Around this time Cathy declares on me and manages to take the Persian cap. My western army is on its way to retake the capital and after that, role into Russian terrain.
    * Alexander falls within 8 turns.
    * Japan was easier than expected. Frigates were crucial. Used a scout to cap his cities from the water. Fully upgraded Keshikes provided cover and teared through his cities. After the logistics promotion, which getting as early as possible is crucial in this scenario, having city attack, range and indirect fire were also necessary to take Japan. Having the bonus against fortified units was also handy.
    * Western army attacks the south of Russia.
    * Eastern army attacks the east of Russia.
    * Turn 87 and the last Russian city falls.
     
  13. NAPpy

    NAPpy Chieftain

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    Peter John or Meister Maggi,

    Could you post more details on your awesomely fast wins? I'm currently bogged down at finishing in the low 80's, and am struggling to take the next step. I love this scenario. And, I hate this scenario!
     
  14. Wolfbeckett

    Wolfbeckett Jerkin' and nonsense.

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    So what is an optimal science strategy for this scenario? In my current attempt at beating deity I'm on turn 67, Cathy, Byzantium, and both China's are dead. Japan hasn't been touched. India's cities haven't been touched, but they recently declared on me and tried to attack one of my cities and I wiped out a large part of their army, hopefully I can get to them before they can rebuild. Arabia I've only been at war with for a couple of turns, I've destroyed some of their units but haven't gotten to any of their cities yet. Persia has one city.

    Currently I've got one army waging the war against Arabia, another finishing off Persia so that they can move into India. I have hopes that these two armies can finish their respective jobs in time. I also have a few units and I'm planning to get a few more trying to take Korea so that I can start working on Japan. My PLAN is to use frigates to hopefully make taking Japan easier, attempts to take Japan using land forces on previous attempts at this have been nightmare tier. But I greatly fear that I may have screwed up my tech path and I'm not sure I'll get to frigates in time. Defeating the 3 remaining non-Japan civs certainly would get me there but Arabia and/or India might fall too late, if I get frigates at turn 95 or whatever it's going to be too late to use them to attack Japan. I'm at work so I can't actually check my tech to see where exactly I'm at, but just in case I fail this and have to restart it again, what is the optimum way to handle tech in this scenario?
     
  15. killmeplease

    killmeplease Mk Z on Steam

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    in my experience rifles turned out to be more valuable than frigates. i attacked japan with rifles and trebuchets, frigates were supporting, bombarding japan's land units but didnt do much damage. rifles could resist city bombardment and fight samurai in rough terrain.
     
  16. Wolfbeckett

    Wolfbeckett Jerkin' and nonsense.

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    WOOOO! Managed it. I don't know how you people do this so fast, I feel like everything went right for me on this run and it still took me until turn 99. I try to follow the advice given in this thread and everything goes off the rails right away. Example: Every guide says "Western Xia captured on turn 3". I have not found a way to capture it any earlier than turn 4 without letting their spearmen kill a keshik. So, right from the beginning, I end up behind what everyone else says. OH WELL, turn 99 is good enough for the achievement so I will not need to play this one again. Thanks to everyone in this thread for all the advice that's been given, I never could have done this at all without this thread.
     
  17. Kraken98

    Kraken98 Chieftain

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    Alright, I decided to tackle a few months ago, and have been working on this and other achievements off and on with the following results...

    Game 1: It's turn 70, and I've finally finished off both Chinas... then I remember that there's a 100-turn time limit. When I quit that playthrough I realized I'd only had it on Prince! Oh well, back for a replay.

    Game 2: I hadn't taken any CS's in my first game, so this time I went overboard, grabbing all CS's east of Abbasids, and took both Chinas, India, and Persia, but couldn't even begin to penetrate the Arabian's stonewalling. Again, it's roughly turn 70, and I rage-quit. Still, I obviously did better than my last playthrough, especially as this time it was on Deity, rather than Prince. I figure I got a lot more efficient at Keshik tactics. Surprisingly, even with my mass conquests, there was only a single turn where the happiness hit -20, and a total of 6 turns where I was VERY UNHAPPY.

    Game 3: I'm much more stingy with CS conquests this time around. I take W Xia, snag Beijing, then book it west to hit Persia with all I got, I also sold W Xia to Wu for a boatload of cash, 900+. I take Persia earlier than ever, and went on to run into Arabia around 35, defeating them after a vicious fight, bulldozing Greece, and on north to Cathy. Frisking her, turn 70(ish) arrives with Persia left with only their southern city, I own Beijing, Kaifeng, Kiev, a stalemate in Russia's NW city, her eastern city burned, Arabia and Greece destroyed, Karakorum nearly reduced to rubble, and a grand total of 16 Chinese units within sight of Karakorum. I still haven't touched Ghandi or Japan. Once again, I quit.

    GAME 4: At long last, VICTORY!!!!
    Seeing how Game 3 produced far better results in the west than in previous games, I decide critically to go even MORE west-heavy. I take W Xia on turn 4, (odd, last game I know I got it on 3) contact Wu, and sell her W Xia to her for 620ish gold (also odd, why so much less than last time?)

    Then I upgrade all available Horsemen but 1, and send my troops to Samarkand, con Darius, DoW him, take Samarkand, move on to Urgench, and puppet that city as well. It is now turn 12, and I try Darius for that savior deal everyone gets (which I also got last game) for his two available cities), but he refuses! Puzzling, I took his capital 11 turns earlier than I ever have. So I begin the siege of the next city on that road. After 2 turns, during which I slaughter his troops and reduce his city to 1/3 health, he presents an offer... Tabriz, Open Borders, both his (unique :) ) luxuries, and the hundred-something gold he had on hand. Fine, that works for me, it's only turn 15. Last game I began the assault on Samarkand on turn 16, so I'm way ahead of last time, right?

    I move my 6 keshiks, horseman, and 2 Khans through, and have begun building up the nucleus of an eastern army. I contact Arabia, con him, and attack his northern-most city, then the one south of that. I then send everybody to Cairo. After a few turns, Al-Rashid has only a single catapult in Cairo and a then-undiscovered Camel Archer in Mecca. However, a couple uber-Keshiks are dangerously low on health, so I send them east and south to beat down Mecca, along with the Horseman. A few turns later, Mecca is conquered and Cairo is low on health. I waste an extra turn of bombardment whittling Cairo back down to zero because my Horseman took so long moving there, but I do succeed. The only Arabian cities I kept were Cairo and his horse-city for the horse (obviously) and a couple luxuries, including a surplus Silver for extra gold from other civs. (I got the silver and cotton after buying some tiles, it was worth it, though, as with the courthouse and circus, I began using them as a scout factory for the surrounding cities.)

    II've also begun the assault of Beijing around 25, partway through the Arabian war, with 4 Keshiks. This puts me about 20 turns ahead of last game on the eastern front and about as many on the western front. YAY!!! As a plus, I'm better off money-wise (bank and income), happiness, roadworks, diplomatic relations with Ghandi and Japan, SP-wise, and I've chosen better tech paths to better employ free civ-techs. As a side-note, last game I sold Urgench to Arabia for extra gold, and had for a few turns reduced Yellow China to just Kaifeng. Green China took Kaifeng, and Cathy took Urgench while those were their respective owner's' last cities. I got a nasty wake-up call when they were conquered, because I did NOT get the 1000 gold or free tech from finishing them off. This time, as I only sold W Xia, this wasn't a problem.

    I rush Greece, and about 6-8 turns later, he is no more, and my troops are busy crossing the east-west river north of Constantinople. I've also taken Beijing at this point, made peace with Rammy, conned Wu, and begun laying waste to W Xia's environs with an army of 5 Keshiks, all but one with Logistics, a horseman and a Khan, my western army is still at 6/1/2, but is far better promoted, all Keshiks having Barrage 1,2,3, Logistics, +1 Range, and Indirect Fire.

    I frisk Cathy, and cream her troops on my side of the river just south of Kiev. I take up two turns safely crossing the river to attack Kiev. I mow her troops, take Kiev, then split forces in half to attack both her remaining cities simultaneously. 4-5 turns later, she is shrouded in the mists of history, and my western army is once again on the move, to the east, where they will then trek south past Urgench to finish off Darius. All this is accomplished shortly before/after 50. My eastern army, meanwhile, has succeeded in taking W Xia, and Wu's west-most city, and reduced her next-most westerly city, (Xian?) to zero health. My horseman was too far to take the city that turn, so I repositioned it within range and hit "Next Turn". Wu then approaches me with an offer, the mother of all savior deals. She will give me the city I am currently besieging, (big whoop, virtually no difference in my overall strat), the other three cities she's allowed to give (which will reduce her to only her original capital, not half-bad), Open Borders (worthless, as I'm not going through her capital) and over 3000 gold!!!!. Naturally I accept her offer, (Turn 47 or 48) and set all those cities ablaze. Unhappiness hits an all-time high of 47, but rapidly declines in later turns, as I'm burning Thessalonica, the four cities Wu gave me and the other city of hers I had conquered before the peace deal. Next turn Thessalonica is no more, there's 6 fewer occupied population, meaning I am now at 39 :mad:, then 32, (some happy buildings and 5 fewer pop) then 27, and on down from there. I decide, (erroneously) to wait a few turns to let my :mad: get back above -10 (wouldn't be long, 3-4 turns, :wallbash: it's not like time is the most important factor or anything) at least and heal up my units.

    East army frisks Jin, takes Kaifeng, upon DoW, Jin sends 5 elephants, an archer, and 3? pikemen in 2 waves to Beijing. As Kaifeng fell in 2 turns, (took a bit of fancy footwork), I began to fall upon his flank and rear. Another 3 turns later, his army is naught, he has only Liaoyang, my Keshiks and Horseman are all placed to attack it, and Wu's peace. I polish off Jin, then sprint south to Wu. I spend a total of 3 turns transferring my troops there, and positioning them for maximum effect. I frisk and DoW Wu, and 3-4 turns later, have her capital. China is no more! That's about 65-70ish. By that same time, my western army had finally frisked and DoWed Darius, taken his two cities, had found Ghand's western city, and I had 3 Keshiks and 2 Khans east across the river, the other 3 Keshiks, Horseman and a new Khan (that's right an army at 6/1/3, and surprise! the Horseman had Shock 3!) on the west side of the river... for now. (Turn 68 or 69)

    The western army frisks, DoWs Ghandi, and begins chewing through Ghandi's army, taking a couple of turns to kill 6 units and hit his city a few times. My western Keshiks would shoot, and, each turn, 1 of them would cross the river in the newly cleared space on the east banks. I keep killing units, take his west city, then his northern one, then Delhi, and, lastly, his eastern city. Overall process to annihilate Ghandi was 17 turns.

    The eastern army sprints again, this time back up north, where they DoW Korea, which pisses Obunaga off as Korea is under the protection of Japan, but I'll be at war with him shortly, anyway. I had my western army pillage 2 farms while my eastern army pillages the 2 eastern farms originally in Liaoyang (hadn't paid attention and accidentally burned Liaoyang to the ground, it all worked out, I had enough horse) and 5 in Korean land so I could finally get the "Pillage, then Burn" achievement without cheese. I conquered Korea, accidentally annexing it (meant to puppet, and then annex once out of resistance). I annexed Wu's former capital once it was out of resistance, and bought courthouse in both, I think circus in Korea (can't recall if I was allowed) a Barracks, Armory, and Shipyard in both. I then had the eastern army frisk, DoW Japan, then bombard his navy, embarked units, ground units, and western city with +1 Range Keshiks from the Korean peninsula. I spent a lot of gold on my buildings in Wu's capital and Korea, but I had began the Japanese war with 11000 gold, so I purchased 9 Frigates in 5 turns out of those two cities, and got another one later. I gave them all Bombardment 1,2. I actually took the western city before Frigates entered the fray. The boats proved invaluable in taking out the last two cities and the surrounding ground units. I finally claimed the last Japanese city on Turn 94!

    In retrospect, I need to figure out some way to get an extra Keshik or 2 west so I can split, and take Greece and Persia simultaneously, then proceeding to Russia and Ghandi should reduce my time. I probably ought not to fiddle around as China burns but rather press my advantage and slay Jin quickly so I can get back to Wu and be ready as soon as peace concludes. I also did much better on the use of Scout garrisons, but I should've started sooner, and I need to figure out some way to eliminate Japan faster. Next time, I need to NOT burn Liaoyang completely, for a naval base is nothing else. That'll get me those Frigates sooner, get them more XP for +1 Range or Logistics or something.

    But, hey, I got 7 achievements out of this game, Pillage, then Burn, Golden Horde, Khan, Great Khan? Supreme Khan, Kublai Khan, Genghis Khan. It'll be a while before I replay this, and in the meantime, I'm gonna immortalize it in my Steam Cloud saved games. :king:

    Also, for kicks and giggles, after conquering Japan, I began research of the Industrial technology, Biology!

    And I'd like to thank this forum for your help, it's been a wonderful pain-in-the-arsenal beating this bugger. :D
     

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