How important is it to found religions?

[TheEndOfMe]

The reson I ask is becasue the AI has an irritating tendency to found religions just 1 or 2 steps ahead of me...its really getting annoying. I have lost buddhism and hinduism soooo many times to this AI habit. should I even bother with trying to get them? Also the AI tends to create wonders a few turns ahead of me, really annoying. not multiple turns ahead of course...its ALWAYS 1 or 2 turns, its getting frustrating, fast.

 

[Supr49er]

Unless you play a SPI leader that starts with Mysticism, don't worry about an early religion. You may be able to get Judiasm (Monotheism), Taoism (Philosophy), Christianity (Theology), Confucianism (Code of Laws), or if all else fails, Islam (Divine Right).

What is important is to spread your religion fast and far.

 

[HerrDoktor]

Hmmm... I suppose you're playing an easier difficulty, am I right? In Noble and bellow you always can be faster than the AI. To get the first two religions, you have to get some wealth very early on in your capital fat cross. Open the city manager and check how many coins are there in the map, and manually put the citizens to work on the highest wealth-earning squares, even if this means keeping your capital to size 1. Normally, the computer will try to focus on growth and put your citizens to work on high-food squares, ignoring the research-producing coins. If you're playing with a financial leader, this is far easier, as any sea or lake square produces 3 coins plus the added natural food since the stone age - you just may have to research Fishing first and the money can be enough to beat the AI even after that time spent on this research.

 

[JustinianVII]

Founding a religion always helps with making gold, once you build the shrine.
The earliest ones with Meditation and Polytheism are a bit harder to grab, though, since it's pretty dependent on your starting position (low commerce spot=probably won't happen). A CoL slingshot with the Oracle works quite well.

If you can't get one but a neighbor has one, take his/her Holy City by force.

If you really, absolutely must have a religion, use the Advanced Start and buy one.

 

[TheLastOne36]

The reson I ask is becasue the AI has an irritating tendency to found religions just 1 or 2 steps ahead of me...its really getting annoying. I have lost buddhism and hinduism soooo many times to this AI habit. should I even bother with trying to get them? Also the AI tends to create wonders a few turns ahead of me, really annoying. not multiple turns ahead of course...its ALWAYS 1 or 2 turns, its getting frustrating, fast.

Budhism and Hinduism is always a lost cause IMO. (enless your spiritual and start with Mysticism)

For wonders, if it's 1 or 2 turns ahead, try whipping wonders. In multiplayer you must whip early wonders, and i tend to use the same philosophy while playing single player. Works for me. (take in to consideration that i build stonehenge every game)

Edit: I also sometimes, work every production tile till my cities are starving to get a wonder a turn or 2 earlier.

 

[HerrDoktor]

By the way, I consider founding an early religion a medium priority task. Getting the Oracle, the Pyramids and the Great Wall (in this order) and conquering the closest neighbor (unless he is Sitting Bull) are far more important. If I got Mysticism and some gold in my FC, I'm going for Polytheism, as you need it for the Oracle anyway. If I got LOTS OF GOLD and a financial leader, I may consider trying Mysticism>Polytheism - in Noble and bellow.

 

[oranges]

It's very nice to have an early religion, provided that you'll have a shrine in foreseeable future, essentially meaning that you need also either Stonehenge or Oracle. A great boon to economy, enabling you to spread more early without destroying your tech rate. A shrine also helps spread the religion quickly, without having to build missionaries. However, without a great prophet to build a shrine, establishing an early religion is not nearly as useful, just a +1 happy and, if you're lucky that it spreads to another city, + 1 culture, which you will get even if someone else established the religion

 

[TheLastOne36]

It's very nice to have an early religion, provided that you'll have a shrine in foreseeable future, essentially meaning that you need also either Stonehenge or Oracle. A great boon to economy, enabling you to spread more early without destroying your tech rate. A shrine also helps spread the religion quickly, without having to build missionaries. However, without a great prophet to build a shrine, establishing an early religion is not nearly as useful, just a +1 happy and, if you're lucky that it spreads to another city, + 1 culture, which you will get even if someone else established the religion

actually i use that strategy quite a bit, i complete henge (on epic) at around turn 16-25 and a prophet comes out around turn 75 and in the time, i spread the religion to 2-4 other civs(if i'm lucky), i build the shrine and the other civs spread the religion themselves providing me with enough gold to supply a 12-ish city empire, without overexpanding and falling in tech.

 

[GenMarshall]

It's important if you want culture and gold bonuses.

 

[Edgecrusher]

I usually forget about the early religions, focusing on conquoring my neighbors with Warrior/Chariot rushes.

Eventually whenever I finish The Oracle, i get Code of Laws and focus on spreading that very quickly.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Religions are overrated.

 

[Supr49er]

Religions are overrated.

In Civ or IRL?

 

[Mik1984]

I thought before that religions are extremely important, but after some experience I know that's it's not true. If you are playing on emperor, you can forget about religion if you don't have mysticism, on immortal, if there are enough civs, it's very likely you're out of chances of grabbing one even with mysticism.

 

[warpus]

You can usually get Hinduism on Noble, even if you don't start with Mysticism.

 

[cronullasharks]

Sometimes on the higher levels even if you do manage to grab Bhuddism or hinduism you are still worse off than if you researched elsewhere

example........Boudica.........Having only two religious techs and hunting 20 turns into the game means realistically having to study archery next unless you want to play Russian Roulette with Barbs. If you make a worker he cant do anything , a settler with a lone warrior is a huge risk , slavery is miles away etc etc

Add that to the risk of not even getting the religion in the first place means its very hard to justify.

Then lets say you overcome all these obstacles and are still alive......now you have to spend valuable hammers on missionaries etc.

It just seems to me there are better things to do

 

[Kadazzle]

Agreed.

Religon is only good if you need commerce and happiness, otherwise, just skip it and conquer your closest neighbours.

 

[anduril171]

If you're going for a cultural win, even on the higher levels, you're well served by trying to grab as many religions as possible. Since the Cathedral buildings for each religion add +50% culture to a city, and you need 3 cities (on standard size) with a given religion to build that cathedral, the more religions you have, the more of these buildings you can have.

For an example, if you have 2 religions and 6 cities (the ideal size for a cultural win on a Standard map, I think), you can build 2*6/3 = 4 cathedrals among your three cultural cities. But if you have 3 religions, you can build 3*6/3 = 6 cathedrals, which will greatly speed your cultural win. Additionally, you can prop up your economy with religious wonders such as University of Sankore, Apostolic Palace, and Spiral Minaret if you've spread your state religion far enough. Even better, if your next-door neighbors share your religion, you can usually avoid wars, or bring in some powerful religious allies if you get attacked.

So while religions can be situational, I don't think they should be discounted outright. Especially for cultural victories, they can be very powerful.

 

[Kadazzle]

For cultural victories, even without Cathedrals, Religon can help you a lot, early game.

Quick question about Cultural Victories, if you take out all of the other civs, and on Cultural Victory is checked, would you win, or would you just have to wait?

 

[paydro]

Haha, that's a good question Kadazzle... my guess is you'd have to wait.

On Noble or Prince, it's definitely very possible, if you start with mysticism, to get an early religion. I used to do that regularly. Since moving up, however, it is usually difficult, unless you have some gems or something, to get one of those two. cronullasharks is completely right, you're usually best served doing something else anyway. Judaism I almost never get... monotheism just isn't as valuable a tech as, say, ironworking, or pottery, or writing.

The later 4 religions are much more possible, and carry a far lower opportunity cost than the early three. I almost never get Islam, just because Divine Right is out of the way and I'm usually pursuing Liberalism. Some spiritual leader tends to get DR much earlier than I ever do.

Others have already mentioned the Oracle>CoL slingshot to get Confucianism. That works, and I would often do it on Monarch, but now that I've moved up to Emperor just getting the Oracle is often difficult, plus you have to be through writing before you finish. I don't do that very often.

The other two religions I found much more frequently than all the rest combined, because they're A) on the way to liberalism, and B) can get lightbulbed by great people. The Great Scientist>Philosophy lightbulb is a HUGE beaker boost for that early stage (1200+!), plus you need it to get to Paper>Education>Liberalism. Usually, however, I have some other religion spread through my lands at this point, so Taoism kind of ends up getting the shaft unless I spread it for happiness/shrine reasons.

So that leaves Christianity, which is a really great one to get. Theology is also on the way up to Liberalism, and I usually get a Great Prophet from Stonehenge (Right there with you thelastone36) to bulb it with. 700+ beakers isn't bad at all for a non-scientist GP. The downside is you have to research Polytheism, Monotheism, and Meditation before you can do the bulb, so sometimes I have him sitting around for a few turns, but it's worthwhile.

The game I'm playing right now, I ended up on a continent with 2 other civs, and none of us founded any religions, so my bulbing of theology ended up being a major money-maker when every city on the continent became Christian. I ended up getting Taoism too by accident, but I haven't spread it much.

 

[Edgecrusher]

I didnt notice this before the the Sistine Chapel now gives +5 Culture to your state religion buildings, so between the University of Sankore, Spiral Minaret and now the Sistine Chapel...

in the end though I dont think it matters if you found one, as long as you have one. As I mentioned earlier I usually get 1 from Code of Laws or Philosophy since they are on the way to the midgame techs I aim to be the first to get.