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How is Europe going to resist succumbing to murdoch style rightwing media?

Hygro

soundcloud.com/hygro/
Joined
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Murdoch style rightwing news is an extremely potent democracy killer. The UK with all its public services and incredible universities and museums taking everyone else's culture great cosmopolitanism collapsed to Brexit. The United States is clearly cooked. And just before the US election, Canada was having a huge rightwing anti immigrant fake grass roots moment. Silver lining of our bad outcome was they woke up a bit. The formula is perfected in English speaking countries, we're infected. And it's not just us, Russia's got their multiple Fox style state media outlets. They're cooked.

So for this stuff to succeed it has to grow out of something. Germany's got institutional limits on rightwing speech and right now has a much much lower percent of psychologically rightwing personalities compared to say the USA (like 8% instead of 29% or whatever). So it can nip it in the bud more easily. But what about other Nordic pluralist countries with healthier social democracies? How is France not going to collapse into the feedbacking amplification of doom — whatever rightwing meme power tipping point? Isn't like Italy already compromised since the 90s?

Like, is Europe just one media generation behind us, where social democracy is large but not inherently self sustaining, and therefore vulnerable? Or do you guys have some structural advantage where maybe you can save us all? Or at least yourselves?
 
Double down on Public Service – it needs to maintain credibility, which is being challenged, but given how the social media echo chambers work, people are actually turning to the PS outlets in increasing numbers again.

Small languages also have an inherent advantage over larger languages here. By comparison they present more of a "closed shop" situation for external actors trying to influence and sway opinion in some particular direction. Also, unlikely to offer enough profits to be made to interest the Murdoch's of the world...

Otherwise the question might be how to avert gains by right wing populist politics – and that is more difficult, different parts of Europe moving at different speeds since a long time already. That's actually the deep challenge – how to renew participatory, representative politics?
 
will reach the same destination taking a different route . Appearing to oppose , it will be the same exact result . International companies holding everything , by proxy if necessary . What the world needs right now is a disaster .
 
Yes, I know that.

But what other examples are there of murdock style media?

And which of those are supposedly right wing ?

I put it that much media is not so much right-wing as populist.
 
It seems that some people seem to want to turn every thread into a Brexit or a Trans thread.

And I dare say that if I wait here long enough others may try to turn it into an Abortion or Trump thread instead.

The way I see it mass media is inherently populist, but because it is owned by the financial capitalists, it is hesitant
to express support for left wing populism; and with that excluded its average resultant bias is towards the right.
 
Yes, the multitude of languages in continental Europe is a pretty good shield against a single corporation or state dominating the media landscape like it happens in the anglosphere.

That and educate the youth not to trust TikTok and Twitter etc.
Despite the role of social media, only one in ten young people rely on it exclusively for news. A majority also consume news through television or streaming services (64 per cent), radio (51 per cent), and news apps or websites (43 per cent).
 
The language barriers certainly helps slow down literally-Murdoch from franchising his way into other countries.., But surely he's not so personally unique that, following his lead, a local born entrepreneur can see a gap offering the opportunity for a small media empire and national influence. Especially now that the endgame is shown to be not just profit but power and position in a one party state.
 
You cannot have a one party state in something as small as Belgium, how would you do it on continental scale ?

Steve Bannon was once here, looking to start a US style political movement.

The political system was explained to him, he ran away screaming never to return 😊

In Belgium, the People's Party was dissolved on 18 June 2019, thus ending its affiliation to The Movement.
But the Movement is failing almost everywhere else. Bannon’s plan is colliding with the realities of European politics, where rightwing populist parties have turned down his approaches, and electoral laws that mean he is barred or restricted from campaigning in most of the countries he wants to intervene in .
 
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And it's not just us, Russia's got their multiple Fox style state media outlets. They're cooked.

[...] Isn't like Italy already compromised since the 90s?
But what other examples are there of murdock style media?
Why it's even in the OP, and it was a lazy unresearched OP. Russia is like, dictator first, news second version. But Italy was a pretty clean takeover by Berlusconi's Mediaset. There's strong attempts by various channels in France, Brazil, Israel, Poland... Brazil seems to be handlings its fascists, but its a fascists vs. all there like here, and Israel of course is even worse/ more complicated but deep in their similar problem. Not sure that France and Poland are stuck as fascists vs all or if they're one or two steps healthier.
 
will reach the same destination taking a different route . Appearing to oppose , it will be the same exact result . International companies holding everything , by proxy if necessary . What the world needs right now is a disaster .
You're miserable, but no one actually needs to make you company.
 
That you're optimistic makes me optimistic. I'm generally optimistic. I think fascism's inherently self cancer especially our hardcore grift kind, free Arkham Asylum kind, Jafar gets the lamp kind, plus that our institutions are secretly still working despite the assault (including like USCIS!) and that the people are basically perfectly divided aka my side is united, gives me a lot of hope. But I also think there's a real end run going on and r16 isn't crazy to think that way. If you think Simba is dead, Pride Rock looks forever Scar's.
 
it is amazing to see after so many years to see people claiming ı need company . It would be some super help to see ı do not . But then to imagine one as a knight on a white charger is so powerful . This is how it is and the institutions and whatnot have no power when they are staffed by 0% of people who think what they secretly or not so secretly do is wrong . They need to be shown they are not all powerful . And may suffer and whatnot . When that doesn't happen , and keeps not happening , you will get a country where doctors and stuff make little babies ill to get money as intensive care costs , castrate one for the laughs of the nurse in the room , kill some if their parents are busy bodies who irritate the medical staff . And the health secretaries of the country who had allowed it happen because they were so nicely profiting with the scheme can say "So What?" on TV . This is happening in a country where the EU knows everything and supports everything . It would end here somehow but to keep us down is so powerful and intoxicating that it emboldens the operators to do it in more places . They need to be shown they can't do it . This is by definition a disaster .
 
Reform is polling so well in the UK that I think they might be cooked. FPTP reallllllly sucks here and countries without it are protected. Reform is leading the polls but only at like 30%. They could easily win a majority of seats like that but they shouldn’t. FPTP needs to go, everywhere.

Poland going from authoritarian to democracy and back to authoritarianism is really disconcerting. America disconcerting. They saw it once and were like “sure why not again?”

This is beyond the scope of this thread but it’s increasingly looking like there is a general global nihilism/cynicism belief and loneliness epidemic slowly reaching through to every country. That has to be combatted as well.
 
I’m with you 100% I think there’s a lot at play such as loneliness affecting politics and fptp voting creating a particular vulnerability. And the cynicism, yes, and if I may add: like it was cool to watch game of thrones and think like a power gaming princeling. Very uncool to then think you somehow know better projecting that onto American when it’s that very mass projection required to make it real.
 
Murdoch style rightwing news is an extremely potent democracy killer. The UK with all its public services and incredible universities and museums taking everyone else's culture great cosmopolitanism collapsed to Brexit. The United States is clearly cooked. And just before the US election, Canada was having a huge rightwing anti immigrant fake grass roots moment. Silver lining of our bad outcome was they woke up a bit. The formula is perfected in English speaking countries, we're infected. And it's not just us, Russia's got their multiple Fox style state media outlets. They're cooked.

So for this stuff to succeed it has to grow out of something. Germany's got institutional limits on rightwing speech and right now has a much much lower percent of psychologically rightwing personalities compared to say the USA (like 8% instead of 29% or whatever). So it can nip it in the bud more easily. But what about other Nordic pluralist countries with healthier social democracies? How is France not going to collapse into the feedbacking amplification of doom — whatever rightwing meme power tipping point? Isn't like Italy already compromised since the 90s?

Like, is Europe just one media generation behind us, where social democracy is large but not inherently self sustaining, and therefore vulnerable? Or do you guys have some structural advantage where maybe you can save us all? Or at least yourselves?

Brexit was a defense reaction against the class warfare by the wealthy liberals of the UK, one they had been very successfully waging on the rest of the population. If you fail to see that you cannot understant anything about european poitics.

First you must understand whta the british (and the rest of the western subcontinent here) were against. "Cosmopolitanism", as it turns out if you look carefully at all places famous for it throughout history, is linked to plutocratic/oligarchic rule, imperialism, slavery, profound inequality of wealth and social status. Athens, Rome, Venice, Amsterdam, Paris, London, all cosmopolitan cities... The "free movement of people and capital" is to the benefit of plutocrats and to the detriment of the rest. Those summer holidays in the Mediterranean for the working class only work if the wages can cover the cost... those squeezed out then fail to see the appeal of freedom of movement they can no longer afford. Liberalism from the 1990s onwards until now in "Europe" built on the material foundations laid out by social-democracy and communism. And wasted them away. Or rather, financialized them away.
Public utilities, transportation, housing, education, health care - all public goods built up under reasonably competent governments until the 1980s, wether communist or social-democratic, wer, after the triumph of liberalism, privatized, which is to say stolen by the liberal plutocrats. By stealing ownership of them an uper caste could change rent incomes from the mass of the population. This is too plain to hide, the victims know it.

The fact that a portion of that ruling class supported brexit changes nothing about the above. It only shows that the upper class is divided on future strategy, but then what is new about that?

Europe is ending its liberal period. Public discontentment is hight but more importantly there is little left to steal (in Europe there's pensions). Greed alone is enough motive to the upper class to divide on what to do next. Some in the UK came up with the "Singapore-on-the-Thames" and supprted brexit out of greed. They miscalculated, believing the UK had more clout that it really has. Murdoch is one among many of that divided class.

The issue is that liberalism simply hit its "limit to growth, na dthat became especially obvious as the anti-slav crusade (new resouces to plunder) failed completely and backfired. Now for a plutocrat to grow it must eat another plutocrat... which means that political liberalism with the fetishsm of rules is no longer useful for the ruling class that had been using it. Liberalism therefore has already became openly "illiberal". Consider:
The UK's government ordered the largest mass arrest of people for the crime of speech, just this week. t wasn't prompted by "Murdoch". It wass the zionists in charge there.
Likewise, the german govermment has its police beating up people for the crime of denouncing an ongoing genocide. The "right wing media" has nothing to do with it.
It wasn't the "right wing media" that invalidated an election in Romania, and then on top of that prohibited the leading candidate from running in the repetition vote.
Just as it wasn't the "Murdoch media" that ordered the irish to vote again when they rejected the Lisbon Treaty.

The european political classes, the brand of european liberalism that became hegemonic on the 1990s, was anything but democratic. Liberalism was always only a fig leaf. It was imperial and elitist, disguised as "technocratic". The EU they crafted was meant to supress democracy, reduce voting to an empty ritual of choosing one of many parties all with the same policy (whatever they claimed in campaign). But now the reality of the consequences of exploitation at home (class war, the other class reacts) and collapse of imperial power abroad (the cope is great but cannot hide defeat after defeat, and midget status diplomatically and militarily) made liberalism no longer useful as a propaganda device to control the voters. So the liberals deliberately walk towards the same exit as their great-grandfathers did in the 1930s. They turn their coats and pretend they're nationalists. Except, this time they lack the material support to succeeed in the pretense. These are people who would cling to power for as long as they could, wading through (other people's) seas of blood if they must. But the states they control no longer have the power to wage wars as distractions for social tensions, or sources of plunder to keep the plutocratic system going.

Fortunately they are much too incompent, and weakened their states already too much, to cause World War III. Their downfall is their own doing, the likes of Murdoch have nothing to do with it. The so-called "far-right" many are already morphing into are mere opportunists riding a wave of rejection against the status quo, but without any solution to adress that rejection and anger. Liberal turncoats and faux conservatives (what is left to conserve?) who know no new tricks will quickly fail.

What will follow. Intresting question. Times are rather uncertain. I can see the failure of this generation of politicians, the ones in power and the ones pretenting to be the alternative. I won't guess at the shape of things to come. But people sould keep in mind Mao's dictum which applies in time sof change: power springs from the barrel of a gun. Even in politis so rotten that they lost the ability to manufacture guns. I think that the fate of each country in Europe will be highly contingent on its specific conditions. No longer any shadow of union.

* which is to say, after Gorbachev and his gang dismantled the USSR as an alternative system
 
democracy and whatever ? Fine , let us vote . Except we will be divided so that there can be narrative that votes were divided by so many different platforms while they can conduct vote fraud . There wasn't vote fraud before only because people assumed they would be punished if caught . Fine , let us fight ? Some years back , some here offered to teach combat to the other side of the spectrum , like to mark people for some list , openly ... not good , to say the least . Talk . A lot of talk . Especially with the other side . The other side will accept nothing because the system has evolved to the point of making of them , all of them , collaborators and accomplices to the crimes , because there are crimes . Still talk , list the crimes being done . Accept the same set of crimes are being conducted by your side , too . Understand you will not be allowed to talk too much . It was a sad day when some single guy left the forums because he was the other side to many here ; besides being the only other person who had apparently called it ridiculous that people were lining up to learn combat on an American gaming forum . You don't see much of the early efforts here to do stuff ; the place is possibly now AI friendly . The enemy , few of the enemy , a little bit of the enemy must be allowed by the system to make it look real . That's why the line about the failure to rape Russia will remain , causing this ultra Democracy now taking over the likes of Britain . Unless it infringes on people's feelings . That you are superior to them , morally and by IQ number and any other thing is carefully projected by the very system , to make you unable to correspond with the lesser beings , like your enemies . With whom you must still talk to tell it to whole that the system is heading for utter hell . Talking is your only hope and weapon even when it goes nowhere . It is the only salvation so that when some disaster happens , you , your enemies on the other side and your enemies on your side will be able to agree that the ideas were the end result of hundreds of years of bloodbaths and checks and balances are fine and such stuff should no longer be allowed and so on .

there is no American weakening on the global scene . There is no European alternative that depends on honesty . That ı object to sale of snake oil is part of talk . Not that ı am superior or anything but it must be that we here in this country maybe have 10 years of more experience on how it goes . Talk , patiently and honestly with no hope of immediate results .
 
It seems that some people seem to want to turn every thread into a Brexit or a Trans thread.

And I dare say that if I wait here long enough others may try to turn it into an Abortion or Trump thread instead.

The way I see it mass media is inherently populist, but because it is owned by the financial capitalists, it is hesitant
to express support for left wing populism; and with that excluded its average resultant bias is towards the right.

I gave you an example of right wing media, murdoch style but you didn't like it
 
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