How is Europe going to resist succumbing to murdoch style rightwing media?

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

you can't if you want to watch TV

Your TV has one channel?

 

[r16]

pretty sure you would find it Antisemitic if ı was to say it is told the Jews are always on both sides of a discussion to get the result THEY want . It might not be true , but Islamists of this country took this to be literally true and worthy of emulation . It is told 95% of the media in my country is controlled by the PM , his relatives and in-laws , friends and underlings . The rest , the 5% , invariably shuts up if it becomes too hot . Threats of punishment or being hidden allies of the 95% . These people shut down the internet in the earthquake zone in 2023 because even some trapped under the rubble could call people for help . If my country had but one channel , it would be easier for any youngster to grasp there was something wrong and the older generations would find heart to accept there was something wrong . Fox in this country was the most liberal and the most trusted . Until the foreign owners , Murdoch or whatever were given enough economic incentives or threatened or whatever .

ı was already reported to JD Vance .

 

[Hygro]

Actually responding to the main underlying complaints from people is the best way to deal with populists.
Populism rise when such complaints are ignored for too long, they are a symptom not a cause. But the mainstream parties seem to be stuck on demonizing the opposition while ignoring the root problems, and then ending up Pikachu-face when the bad guys still get votes.

Yes reducing total anxiety helps except creating anxiety is the goal of the third who want to hear begging for mercy while they say "I'm sorry we had no choice" while smiling, and commence the human sacrifice.

 

[Senethro]

A nasty part of me suspects that a prerequisite for a successful Utopia would be for the people susceptible to populism to have some social activity where they can non-harmfully persecute each other. Distraction and defusing of negative group social instincts.

 

[Hygro]

A nasty part of me suspects that a prerequisite for a successful Utopia would be for the people susceptible to populism to have some social activity where they can non-harmfully persecute each other. Distraction and defusing of negative group social instincts.

Yes super yes, it's a fringe opinion but welcome brother Senethro.

 

[Lexicus]

The most humane solution is using the Metaverse technology to create the Truman Show at scale for MAGA

 

[r16]

the basic premise of giving all those AI programmes free rein is letting people form their "home videos" with anyone they fancy . Not there possibly but hey those people saw the Matrix so many years ago ...

 

[Marla_Singer]

I don’t think it’s populist right-wing media that drives the agenda anymore, it’s viral trends on social media. Populist outlets now mostly echo what’s already catching fire online. This is what forces political actors to respond. And when more “traditional” politicians try to calm things down and put the situation in perspective, that is often interpreted as denial.

Rather than trying to explain how people should think, populist politicians simply acknowledge what is being said online, and people feel listened to. It’s no longer real-life “truth” that matters, but social media “truth".

Take the anti-ICE riots in California. A photo went viral showing a man waving a Mexican flag on top of a burning police car. The image suggested “Los Angeles has fallen”, even though actual unrest turned out limited in scope. And if Trump sent the US Army to “take back” the city, it wasn’t because the actual situation required it, but because the social media situation required it.

 

[Akka]

Yes reducing total anxiety helps except creating anxiety is the goal of the third who want to hear begging for mercy while they say "I'm sorry we had no choice" while smiling, and commence the human sacrifice.

You seem to not get the whole point about taking the cause-effect backward.

 

[Hygro]

You seem to not get the whole point about taking the cause-effect backward.

Then why are the jobless voting blue and the well employed upper middle class voting red to hurt the jobless, and their litany of perceived uglies?

Why are the secure the anxious ones in your model and the anxious ones the prosocial voters? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

 

[Voidwalkin]

Then why are the jobless voting blue and the well employed upper middle class voting red to hurt the jobless, and their litany of perceived uglies?

Why are the secure the anxious ones in your model and the anxious ones the prosocial voters? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

I've brought this up before elsewhere, but Trump actually is thought to have won voters under 50k and the less well educated outright.

 

[Voidwalkin]

I would add something to this ongoing discussion of white supremacy more generally.

There is a loss of belief across the whole spectrum in the possibility of a truly colorblind and post-racial society. This is true on the left as well as the right.

In daily conversation, I think people are more likely now to understand their various identities than they were ten years ago. The effect has not been harmonious. I do not know many people who walk away from analysis of their group's interaction with wider society and come away content.

As a reconciliatory principle, favoring the less powerful group has flopped, offending the sense of fairness of too many. This is not simply a racial thing, it's increasingly a gender thing, and even generational gaps are more pronounced than I remember. Hotel California is, to me, the most quintessentially American song ever made. I recently was told it is "horrible boomer dreck", with further implications that I am a generational traitor presented seriously. It was kinda...remarkable, that that is the state.

More and more seem to be willing to assert the interests of their group, no matter what its place on some informal ladder of power may be. Universal principle is dead.

I consequently, uh, don't see Europe resisting the lure of right wing media. I tend to think conservatism is ascendant because anti-racist efforts are more likely to incubate traditional identities more frequently than bridge them, with competition for limited resources understood to be the cause of scrapping by all involved regardless of their memberships. This is an environment naturally conducive to right wing growth, especially socially.

It's kinda bleak, but it's my big picture read.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Hotel California played at the dentist's the last time I was there. It had been a long time since I had heard it. So I was hearing it with fresh ears.

I thought to myself "Man, this thing deserves its reputation."

 

[Hygro]

I've brought this up before elsewhere, but Trump actually is thought to have won voters under 50k and the less well educated outright.

He gained big there the second time around with lower incomes. He still lost the under 30k demo.

Less educated doesn't mean more anxious, let alone economically anxious. But when you drill into the demographics, his core constituency is skews higher income particularly relative to geography. Higher income households tend to be urban and educated which is two demos that skew away from wanting to hurt imagined others but he still did well. Particularly because he swept high income people outside the urban core and did well within it.

Those needing a social safety net most stayed majority democratic (no surprise). But those who want their poorer neighbors to not have one (above 30k until 100k) broke from Trump, or really, stayed Republican.

A guy making 120k in a low cost of living area off his gusto and not degree went way harder for Trump than than a guy making 120k in an expensive city from a degree based career track facing layoffs. It really seems the anxious and those in need weren't Trump voters.

 

[EnglishEdward]

As predicted the thread was hijacked into a discussion about Donald Trump !

I am not an expert on European politics but I rather suspect that the impact
of social media on it there is far greater than that of Rupert Murdoch-ism.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Ok, but if you'd predicted it becoming about the Eagles, well, then that woulda been something.

 

[Hygro]

As predicted the thread was hijacked into a discussion about Donald Trump !

I am not an expert on European politics but I rather suspect that the impact
of social media on it there is far greater than that of Rupert Murdoch-ism.

This thread was always partially about Donald Trump. "Succumbing" in the title was the word has a meaning.

Ruport Murdoch style media lives in in social media where its powers have grown; we already discussed that "social media" is television.

 

[Voidwalkin]

There was a debate at work about providing medication to overdosing opiate addicts. The majority opinion was no. The gist of the argument: they made their choice and we are content to allow them to suffer the consequences.

The counterargument was, distilled version, you're all evil and want people to die. It's the natural, maxed out rhetorical endpoint of those the compassionate take when those that hold values like the former refuse to comply.

Idk I begin to feel like value A is competitive in social market share in increasing percentages, aligning with decreasing social trust and social isolation, which fray bonds with a sense of a larger communal whole(reasonable to presume less reciprocity to a community that seems distant and mutually scornful with you). Those in B are responding with max'd rhetoric more frequently, with less and less effect. Social circumstances nudge people into A, and they become immunized to B.

I saw it with both covid and cancel culture. It is another thing that makes me suspect the right will strengthen; communal weakness must really be addressed before those naturally attracted to the values of A become altruistic enough to even consider B; this can be somewhat overcome by B, by accusations of immorality, but eventually those lose power, and even come to discredit B(I've seen this with woke).

B cannot really reverse the trend line unless it
-fosters creation of a unifying, consistent ideology that unites rather than seperates individuals(here, woke was a monstrously counterproductive flop and its still an ongoing project of the most compassion oriented thinkers)
-deliberately creates social organizations that at least restore interaction to local communities; in practice I envision something like state sponsored festivals, currently the domain of church groups with dwindling attention

I think B is more workable and is the Voidwalkin passion project politically but I think understanding the necessity of it may be too abstract to catch wind.

Just thoughts I kick around. If it's a looser anything goes thread with the impact of social isolation already mentioned, I'll throw it out there.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Ruport Murdoch style media lives in in social media where its powers have grown; we already discussed that "social media" is television.

Maybe that is different in the US, but here in France I'm pretty sure it's the other way around: it's first on social media trends, then it's on TV.

For context, France didn’t have a Murdoch-style news channel until recently. It's only in 2017 that one of the 4 news channel (renamed "CNews") was turned into a far-right platform, inspired by the already powerful alt-right trends on social media.

Maybe that is the reason why social media has such a strong head start in shaping political discourse around here. Traditional media was slower to adopt the confrontational, opinion-driven style that already dominated online.

 

[Angst]

Hotel California is, to me, the most quintessentially American song ever made. I recently was told it is "horrible boomer dreck", with further implications that I am a generational traitor presented seriously. It was kinda...remarkable, that that is the state.

just a reasonably relevant tangent on this: i'll stress that hotel california is a great song. like it quite a bit. it is by no means horrible, nor is it dreck.

but it is absolutely boomer. peak dad rock playlist material.

this particular exchange is not generational or new. it's songs getting old; whoever told you this recognized that, and music has basically always been substantive to identity. it doesn't really build towards your general point, whether i agree with the rest or not. this is actually just my field of education i can invoke: it's literally just someone yelling at someone over identifying ties to music. always has been.