How is Europe going to resist succumbing to murdoch style rightwing media?

[Snowygerry]

and why do you imagine that matters any single bit ? The PM has reportedly a "seven step algorithm" he uses to answer any question he might be asked , if he hadn't had the questions vetted before , which falls to three steps if he doesn't have the time . It all falls down to an image of being the winner forever . As long as that is on , it doesn't matter he says Black to something which he had White yesterday . He can change views , a full 180 degrees within 15 minutes , in the very same TV show interview . It means nothing that in Belgium or the EU calls him one thing , if his media here can twist it , invoke Sho-ross somewhere and tell the gullible masses that the PM is the only one who can fight the global cabal , because thd Europeans have attacked him . Even if the PM met Sho-ross a couple of times , his Party primarily uses colours and stuff approved by Sho-ross and this is the most successful of the colour revolutions . The EU is not an alternative . The Europeans are not an alternative .

Yes, but that only works with (ethnic) Turks, no one else pays attention to what Erdogan says. It is true your president holds considerable sway over the opinion of Turks in Belgium, but not much else.

Belgium has highest percentage of pro Erdogan voters in Europe | VRT NWS: news

Figures show that almost 75 percent of Turkish Belgians entitled to vote in the Turkish referendum, gave President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's proposal to acquire more powers thumbs up. Erdogan won the referendum with a slim majority of just 51 percent. Worldwide, only Lebanon showed a higher score...

www.vrt.be

Common belief is that is because they rely on Turkish language news instead of Flemish, French or German, and thus are fed a different narrative than the rest of us.

Belgium’s Turks lose enthusiasm for Erdoğan

Belgium’s Turkish community has traditionally backed the long-time president; that seems to have changed this year.

www.politico.eu

Belgian Turks are “quite unique” in that most originally came from the same rural town of Emirdağ in central Anatolia in the 1960s mainly to work in Belgium’s mines, according to Kadri Tastan, a senior fellow and Turkey expert at the German Marshall Fund thinks. “They’re very nationalist and also quite conservative,” he said, adding that since they don’t feel the effects of Turkey’s economic crisis, they tend to vote for Erdoğan mostly for “ideological and religious reasons.”
Although there aren’t any polls of Belgian Turks, the opposition senses that some opinions on Erdoğan have shifted.

 

[r16]

there is no need for it to work with anyone but ethnic Turks . There will be more for others . If the European market is fragmented , the media apparatus will also be fragmented and tasked accordingly . That there is not a single entity that overlooks the media , you will first have to convince people who think it won't happen to them , because they are not America and they have so many independent media outlets . You now see how cool it is to call anyone a Russian troll ? The people are free and diverse and there is one single common enemy ? American think tanks worked on it for 30 or 40 years to make it fully computer compatible . There are very few oversights now , with drones of trolls daily tick allotted boxes on a screen .

 

[Snowygerry]

(...) The people are free and diverse and there is one single common enemy ?

That is indeed remarkable. Most likely that is because Russia the only entity that is perceived as a systemic threat in all nations in Europe independently, even if not in equal measure.

Others like global warming, specific economic issues, migration, Israel/Palestine, lgbtq rights etc. may be important items in some countries, and politically completely irrelevant in others.

Another example of such a common narrative would be the reaction to the Corona pandemic.

But these are outliers, rare occurences that provoke a common reaction everywhere in Europe, and are reflected in all European news outlets.

 

[Hygro]

Man, your whole thread is about how Europe will face it, and I specifically spoke about "populists" in general. The least you could do when being told to check your assumptions would be to check actual EUROPEAN populist parties and their voters, not just get fixated on Trump's case in the USA with the very specific two-parties situation.

Ok fair enough. I bristle at being accused of dishonesty, and intellectual dishonesty. But in this case what this "is is" was different to you and me. I misunderstood. So, I'm sorry for unwarranted clap back.

However, even if we go straight to Hungary, where the fascist won first and the media will follow (like Russia), rather than in the USA where it's media first, and where the economies are different so the politics, and where the immigration and history of xenophobia include being the underdogs in foreign invasion, and so much more, demographically something very similar is going on.

So Trump voters look working class in the 2024 election, many are. His majorities are from 30k-80ishk But again when we tease out relative differences, more money -> more Trump. It just doesn't overwhelm education, urbanism and knowing diverse peoples, etc. In Hungary it is in many ways similar. Orban's demographics come from poor areas, his majorities are similarly lower income in the strata like Trump. But teased out in those areas, his voters have relatively higher paying and more secure (often government) jobs. Among their neighbors, they are higher paid, and more economically secure. Orban's power like any effective "populist" right winger, is that they make gains in their party's non-natural demographic. Orban's is strong, Hungary is different than America, he has widespread support from "lower" classes. It's all true. But the directionality is from the lower educated + more rural relative upper classes giving great support, into the economically insecure who were voting left of Orban, and as a default, even if that "default" has moved to the exception, are still for the other side.

Btw the story in Italy is not super different (obvious they were Media first, like America, and their ultra rightwinger didn't turn the country into a dictatorship, unlike what Hungary and the USA are risking).

I'm not going to say it's "the same" in Hungary as America, but it's important to know the shared similarity of who starts rightwing, and what their economic positions are relative to mainstream, and how the power of a candidate is enough to make sufficient inroads to gain a majority that isn't his core demo. It would be a mistake to think that the opinion of the demo with which the inroads are made reflect the main of the voter base. Yes there's a kingmaker aspect to that demo that the rightwing populists speak to enough to carve out enough voters. But in most examples, that demo of truly economically vulnerable stays with progressives. The ones who break have "other things going on" (rightwing authoritarian personalities, preference for human sacrifice, etc) and only their economic vulnerability had them previously voting left-ish.

 

[Hygro]

Do you think it's more true to say that the media creates the sentiment, or that the media is created to satiate it?

"Yes"... more broadly. Like both. The media itself is advertising for itself, the media.

There was a large demo in the 2000s that thought Fox News was too liberal. They finally got their mass media. Their mass media didn't create them.

But also, these people had diverse dispersed opinions until they got their marching orders.