How is the AI ?

Discussion in 'Humankind - General Discussions' started by black_rider, Aug 17, 2021.

  1. black_rider

    black_rider Chieftain

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    Hey !
    I see many positive opinions about this game. Can someone who actually have and play this game, review the AI aspect of the game ?
     
  2. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    In contrast to civ, the tactical AI is quite good. There are some unit types with which it is stronger, and some with which it is weaker. So there's room for improvement there but it's better than I expected, and the AI is also good with units on the strategical map. I don't have enough experience with the late game battle AI to see how well it really uses external artillery and planes. Grand scale battles in the last era are a bit hard to achieve against the AI.

    The diplomatic AI is rather sensible. They are a bit too easy to please in the later stages though.

    The economic AI is probably the weakest aspect, as it requires a lot of bonuses to compete with the player. It's not that it builds its districts wrongly or choose the wrong tenets or anything. Somehow it just doesn't seem to be able to really converge its strengths. In a way, that's just how single player games work though - buffing the AI for extra challenge. The main problem is that if you are able to win a war or two against the AI early on, you can benefit from their bonuses immensely, which takes away a lot of the challenge.

    Overall, it's a pleasant surprise. But that has a lot to do with the fact that AI standards are so low.
     
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  3. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    As mentioned, the tactical AI is very good. As a matter of fact, they keep improving it, and there will be an update in which the AI will manage its defenses better during sieges (they won't take their militia out and lose the fortifications bonus), plus won't try to take cities only with horses.
     
  4. Lord Shadow

    Lord Shadow General

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    PC Gamer recommends the following:
    https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/humankind-review/
     
  5. Haig

    Haig Deity

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    They have tons of bonuses to population and yields on the higher diff. levels at least, and combat bonuses for tactical phase. No idea yet for the actual ai, I have 5-6hrs played.

    I have had skirmishes but no full blown attacks to my main cities yet. (Been playing third lowest diff.level)
     
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    As PC Gamer said, Empire is about right however VC condition is too easy at the moment.
    In combat the AI is great most of the time, outside the combat, it’s not bad, can surprise you but it’s an AI. the mechanics are great, combat is great, the game looks and sounds nice. If all that’s cared about is the AI you may be let down but a review from a civ IV player was positive.
     
  7. Lord Shadow

    Lord Shadow General

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    Perhaps that's tangentially related to how Civ6 AIs don't quite comprehend Eurekas, since that and HK stars are similar concepts.

    But it could just be a matter of tweaking numbers and making stars harder to obtain by the player. Just speculation, have barely played.
     
  8. looorg

    looorg Prince

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    It was talked about a little over at the Civ5 vox populi section of the forum and I chimed in there but I'll repost what was said here and expand a bit on my thoughts about it since I have since then played another game (I know I say bad things about the game but I still played another one so I guess that says something else, or something about me).

    My post over there. https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/new-4x.655683/page-3#post-16141439

    The AI is just as bad as with any current 4x game really. It's not very good. But it's no worse then what is out there either.

    The tactical combat AI is good? It's suicidal at best. The good part is that the AI have learned to hammer on one unit until it dies. The bad part is that is so obvious so now you'll just dangle units for it to attack and then basically lure them into traps over and over again. I wouldn't call that good. But as noted it's not worse then what other games offer.

    On the first game difficulty (all the default suggested settings) the AI didn't even attack me. The bears, and independent nations and rebel units, were a greater threat then any other civilization or culture AI. Cranking up the difficulty for the second and third game made the AI actually attack you, even beyond just skirmish battles. They actually tried to besiege me, sending wave after wave after wave of units into my chokepoint to die. The city didn't even have a palisade to begin with, I was a bit surprised over their early aggression. My army wasn't even in town. The citizens held them off until I could move my two armies to the city to actually defend it. The AI had more then twice my unit amount and yet just couldn't capitalize on it. The biggest upside for them was that the city they besieged fell behind a bit since you can't produce buildings and units there when you are besieged as far as I can tell.

    The diplomatic AI is just a never ending stream of grievances that you get to ignore. My main concern there is that you can't actually ask the AI for compensation that is realistic. You have more or less no input over it and the size of it. It just asks for lump sumps it suggests and your input is to take that or leave it. Most of the time the AI won't have the resources asked for and can't pay so nothing happens and it eventually times out. After a while I more or less just ignore the entire thing cause more or less nothing good comes from the interaction. So many grievances so little action.
     
  9. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    You and every player always have enough money to pay for demand or war reparations - you or they simply go into the negative. So that's not the issue. You can always press the AI for hundreds of gold, and they usually except with the right stance, no matter how much money they actually have.
     
  10. looorg

    looorg Prince

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    Have I missed something then where you can actually set the amount to ask for? Cause I have not found that. It just sets a lump sump based on something and I can ask for that or nothing at all. The problem is that as the game progressed or the difference between you and the one you ask is greater the sum becomes larger and it's more or less not payable. The only time I really get money from the AI is at the end of wars. I know you can go into the negative, but it has a nasty stability hit (happened once due to some event that utterly crapped on my economy for some turns). My thinking was that if you could ask for smaller amounts they might actually pay it. As it is now most of the demands back and forth are just demands, war endings pay out but most of the other interactions or demands does not. I think I once had an AI agree to hand over a city.

    I guess this explains the AI civs that just fell by the side, their stability and economy just got so bad that they went away and became independents.
     
  11. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    You did not miss something, as the amount is set by the game (based on era/turns/whatever). And yes, I think if you see an AI that's trailing behind helplessly, they are in this spiral that they are intimidated by everyone and always give in to demands. What I meant is that the amount doesn't seem to play a role whether the AI accepts a demand or not.
     
  12. AntSou

    AntSou Deity

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    I got destroyed in a battle with even odds, making it a far cry from Civ 6 in regards to combat.

    upload_2021-8-19_16-36-4.png

    I don't think Civilization can go back to either stacks of doom or 1upt. The answer to combat AI will have to be something closer to what is provided here by Amplitude.

    Edit: Also immediately after losing my army the UI informs me of a change in attitude of the Hittites and Olmecs towards me.

    upload_2021-8-19_16-40-24.png

    upload_2021-8-19_16-41-45.png
     
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  13. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    They progress too fast which could be tweaked, they fight each other too much, could be tweaked.., but it’s more than that, it’s placement and specialists and as mentioned, it just ain’t that smart yet for any 4x game.

    well… I am an aesthete and the My neighbours have twice settled adjacent to my territory and twice given me their settlement for doing so (ironically adjacent to their border). Of course I was trading by then as you should do. You will get cheaper deals and better reparations if your politics are better. You wanna be huffy, it gets peoples back up, no matter how right you are.
     
  14. Xaviarlol

    Xaviarlol Warlord

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    Tactical AI seems decent enough, they also appear to build lots of units so that's nice to see for a change (ahem Civ 6).

    It's pretty hard for any AI to be as terrible as Civ 6. I'd put this in between Vox Populi and Civ 5 vanilla in terms of AI competency. Which is quite good.
     
  15. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    Tactical AI makes relatively good use of flanking, of terrain and of ranged focused fire. Is it perfect? Of course not! But those three elements alone put HK AI two or three leagues above Civ 6 (which, as stated by the previous poster, is now the "antibenchmark" for 4X AI).
     
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  16. looorg

    looorg Prince

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    Manual or Auto-combat? The auto-combat is just asking for death and trouble.

    Trading is nice no doubt. I like how trading halts when there are complications etc. A close border settle on their part was how I got my city demand to. Beyond that tho they don't seem to agree on many things and the deals sort of just sit there until you forgive each other. What I was asking for is if you could ask for a lesser amount, perhaps that would be more common them for them to accept instead of constantly being asked to fork over several turns worth of gold for the most minor inconvenience or grievance.
     
  17. Taefin

    Taefin Prince

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    Uhg, hopefully an easy fix. The AI should some kind of calculation to determine if it’s in an assault or defense state, and sending one unit forward should not trigger such a dramatic change. It seems currently it just asks, is there any unit I can kill. If not, because you are playing the terrain well, it does happily sit back and wait, but it will be unfortunate if the strategy becomes to stockpile bad units to use as bait. At least when all units are the same, and you are reasonably outnumbered, sacrificing units might become too costly to abuse this. Otherwise I’ll just have to make a rule for myself that no one deserved to be bait.
     
  18. AntSou

    AntSou Deity

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    Manual. But I like that there's an auto-combat option. If one day combat becomes trivial for me I can just sit and watch auto-combat for extra difficulty.
     
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  19. Haig

    Haig Deity

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    Well on the Steam forums a dude is showing that the AI cheats by pulling armies out of thin air when threatened, I don't know is it so for every difficulty level but I think that's lame.

    I remember how in Civ 5 AI didn't need to pay unit upkeep even when it was -2423 gold negative, which sucked too.

    I would rather have AI get more production etc bonuses than just magically appearing armies.

    edit: it could of course be some bug that will be ironed out, the game is only two days fresh
    edit2: not just a single guy reporting this but several.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2021
  20. looorg

    looorg Prince

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    Hopefully. But I'm not holding my breath in that regard. I would think it's mostly a matter of terrain usage, the AI doesn't really do it properly. So you are sort of baiting him out and easy kills are like catnip to him. I mostly found this out during a siege, first you get that handful of free units (the citizens that takes up arms, if they die I have not noted any drawbacks to it). So my city was on a hill, behind a river, behind the city-center-hill was cliffs (or higher hills, whatever they are called). So one unit defends the center. The cliffs are filled with archers (or javelin units I think it was at the time). Send one citizen outside just below the cliffs. Instant attack from the AI with all it got and they get demolished by the cliff archers and then if they don't die you just mop them up with the next armed citizen. Perhaps there ought to be a drawback to just sending the citizens out there to die, there might be one but I didn't notice it. But I don't think there was anything bad with it on an in-game level.

    If I didn't send out any citizens there is an initial attack wave, where it has usually built a siege engine etc. They will attack normally and pretty much die, if they don't die they retreat and you won't see them again. If I after that don't send bait, they don't attack. So it's not like they are just throwing themselves at the walls for nothing like lemmings. But they just sit a few tiles away and wait. So you wait since you are the defender. Turns pass and after 3 "fight turns" it ends and you progress to an actual turn which launches 3 more "fight turns" and so it goes until the AI gives up and goes home eventually.

    I wanted to try this again later with Longbows (and english) for maximum range and see if I could just sit there and drop him at max range (4 or something) but he never came back after the first war and double sieges.

    They do send reinforcements from outside, so can you. You walk up to the area, next turn you step into the area and then you can spawn in from a reinforcement point (+). So sieges could more or less just last forever as some kind of waiting game.

    Overall the first siege lasted a total of a couple of game turns and then it realized this wasn't working. So he withdrew. I rushed a palisade and reinforced from the north with more archers and spearmen. He came back and we did it again. Same deal. Eventually I had killed so many of his units he peaced out.


    But as long as the AI is willing to trade his units lives to just get kills then I don't hold much hope for it. The bait tactic works outside of sieges to. Just send something that you don't mind losing out to die, or something that you think or know will be able to survive for one turn and then retreat (so the AI can't have that attack that stuns unit in place for a turn, was some chariots that had that). If you can retreat and then hope the battle ends before you run out of troops (since there is no in-combat healing). Heal afterwards. If you survive with 1 hp you survived and it's not really a loss.
     

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