I read in the bug thread that there's a display issue with how the production from unhappiness due to the Governor's manor/Pillar of Chains is displayed. However, I'm very confused about how it's supposed to work: is it per point of unhappiness or per angry (not working a tile or being a specialist) citizen?
How is the Pillar of Chains/Governor's Manor production Supposed to Work?
- Thread starter Iainuki
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PaleJackal
Chieftain
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- Feb 19, 2009
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- 78
Ah, I presumed it was per point of angry when I read it. Makes a nice bit of thematic sense: enslave your unproductive/angry populace. Per point of unhappy seems too good.... way too good.
Senethro
Overlord
Apparently its working as intended right now. It gives one hammer per red face.
After all the versions and permutations of FFH its quite amazing how balanced the game has become. I think it says good things about Kael's instincts for game mechanics. But Governor's Mansion is one of the last two things that need a visit from Dr. Nerf. (90% cap for PZs!)
After all the versions and permutations of FFH its quite amazing how balanced the game has become. I think it says good things about Kael's instincts for game mechanics. But Governor's Mansion is one of the last two things that need a visit from Dr. Nerf. (90% cap for PZs!)
PaleJackal
Chieftain
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- Feb 19, 2009
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- 78
So in a 17 populace city, with 17 unhappiness, you'll get +17 production? That seems quite a lot... I mean, it's a world wonder and late in the tech tree, I suppose, so perhaps it works out.
Senethro
Overlord
Yeah, now think about what that does when its attached to a Courthouse for a civilization with 2 Org leaders.
Monkeyfinger
Deity
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- Oct 24, 2006
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Right now they give 1 hammer per unhappy face. They used to provide 1 hammer per angry citizen. When it was changed from that to how it works now, it was listed as a bugfix. So it's working as designed currently... question is if that design decision is good.
Tyrs
King
Shh! Its fun to play with, and compared to all of the playthings the Balseraphs get to play around with there needs to be some other powerful civs to compete
WarKirby
Arty person
IMHO, Pillar of Chains is fine, but for Governor's Mansion +1per
is way too powerful. +1
They both do the same thing, do they not? I'm pretty sure they do. The Pillar of chains is just an extra Gov. Manor where you build it, or just one, period, if you're not calabim.
A
per angry citizen would be useless. Really, truly, useless.I agree that the production it currently gives is a bit much, but that change would be too much nerfing, and result in governor's manors being almost worthless.
I'm thinking, it should do more along the lines of giving +0.75
per FF does plenty of yields in float values, so it's certainly possible. But most people seem to think only in integers when it comes to this game, and forget all the shades of grey inbetween.
0.75 would still be a significant amount, but would reduce the overpoweredness without wrecking the calabim advantage entirely.
Also, do remember that manors only give -20% maintenance, not -40%. they're a courthouse replacement.
JFSebastian
Scout
It really needs to have the info displayed when hovering over city production fixed so that new players aren't completely mislead. Same for hovering over its building entry in the city screen.
Right now a governor's manor increases by one. What if you increased it to +1 per 5 population or fraction thereof. In other words, +1 at pop 1-5, +2 at pop 6-10, +3 at pop 11-15, etc. You'd need a lot more happiness to work tiles as your cities grow. This would be both a nerf and a boost depending on what options you had available for mitigating the unhappiness.
Right now a governor's manor increases
by one. What if you increased it to +1 per 5 population or fraction thereof. In other words, +1 at pop 1-5, +2 at pop 6-10, +3 at pop 11-15, etc. You'd need a lot more happiness to work tiles as your cities grow. This would be both a nerf and a boost depending on what options you had available for mitigating the unhappiness.
Iceciro
Special Ability: Decimate
I honestly thought it only worked on unhappy citizens over your happy cap until I found this thread - and the Cabalim are my favorite civ outside of Fall Further (where they get beaten, slightly, by the Scions.)
It's really not made clear ANYWHERE that I know of - I haven't even been building the things in all my cities! That changes now, I suppose.
It's really not made clear ANYWHERE that I know of - I haven't even been building the things in all my cities! That changes now, I suppose.
Humakty
Happy Goblin
0.25 per unhappy would still be great...
WarKirby
Arty person
I think 0.5 would be too little, and 0.25 is just laughable.
If you want to nerf calabim, take away the Death I from vampires. that would help a lot.
If you want to nerf calabim, take away the Death I from vampires. that would help a lot.
Humakty
Happy Goblin
In my book the main pbm is that with the prod bonus as it is, you can field almost as many vampires than any faction can with their champions. So rather than taking off their fun magic, lets take off their prod bonus, who doesn't bing anything fun in the game, and really allows for Calabim to compete with the Clan in pure number of units. Playing chariot swarm with calabim is easy as pie, and not particularly fitting lore wise.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think something like halfing the poprush penalty would be more fitting. Just like the Aztec UB. This way you could even make the feast penalty twice as long (so it's like now only with a Governors Manor).
Iceciro
Special Ability: Decimate
...When did this turn into a nerf the calabim thread? Coulda sworn they were working as intended.
Though if you were going to do something, I'd say halve the production bonus per citizen and remove the +1 that comes with the silly thing.
Though if you were going to do something, I'd say halve the production bonus per
citizen and remove the +1 that comes with the silly thing.
WarKirby
Arty person
Calabim are generally known to be about the most overpowered race in existence. would anyone disagree? Between the manors, a champion and berserker UU with acess to two of the best spellspheres, vampires with essentially infinite experience , without having to fight anything and a neat +10% base strength as well as faster healing, the ability to give said vampirism to any unit of lv6+
not to mention a powerful suicidal axeman unit, an immortal with Channeling II and acess to 3 differrent spellspheres, an additional granary which is one of the VERY few buildings that give a straight amount of food
that said, everyone loves vampires. They have that romantic allure. it's easy to see why the team wanted to allocate them so much power, and why they'd be averse to reducing it.
it's difficult to strike a balance between doing them justice, and making them overpowered.
Slightly off topic, I'd like to see sun magic have more effect on them, like Sun II doing damage and causing a temporary strength penalty, as well as stunning.
but anyways, halving the production bonus from manors seems a bit much. I'm thinking if it's going to be reduced, it would be better to reduce it by a relatively small amount first, and then reduce it more later if it proves necessary. -50% is a LARGE reduction, no mistake about that.
not to mention a powerful suicidal axeman unit, an immortal with Channeling II and acess to 3 differrent spellspheres, an additional granary which is one of the VERY few buildings that give a straight amount of food
that said, everyone loves vampires. They have that romantic allure. it's easy to see why the team wanted to allocate them so much power, and why they'd be averse to reducing it.
it's difficult to strike a balance between doing them justice, and making them overpowered.
Slightly off topic, I'd like to see sun magic have more effect on them, like Sun II doing damage and causing a temporary strength penalty, as well as stunning.
but anyways, halving the production bonus from manors seems a bit much. I'm thinking if it's going to be reduced, it would be better to reduce it by a relatively small amount first, and then reduce it more later if it proves necessary. -50% is a LARGE reduction, no mistake about that.
Monkeyfinger
Deity
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- Oct 24, 2006
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- 2,002
Khazad are better, but I'd certainly put Calabim at #2.
Humakty
Happy Goblin
Khazad has some drawbacks not easy to compensate : no access to high magic and you need to fill those vaults before they kick in. The Calabim only 'flaw' is a so-so early game. For those reasons I'd rate the Calabim number 1.
