How many defenders do you put in cities?

[Hokie13]

Assuming you have the "average" defender, be it a spearman early on or a musket or a rifle, etc....how many people do you usually defend a city with? I've always tried to use as few as possible because I'm usually meek against attackers while I build my hoard to move the war outside of the borders.

I play on Monarch level.

Hokie13

 

[nullspace]

None. Border cities that may be attacked by the AI without warning may get one or two defenders, but defenders are useless anywhere else. Interior cities are empty unless I'm playing a goverment that has lots of free unit support and military police, but I usually play republic.

 

[AlanH]

Zero. I (almost) never build units with higher defence than attack. The only exceptions are usually in a remote town I've acquired in a peace deal that I'd like to keep. Then I *may* rush a cheap defender if it looks under threat before I can reinforce it from home.

 

[Scuffer]

The AI rates attacking units more highly than defending units. If you have loads of attacking units, the AI is less likely to declare war.

Border cities have maybe attacking 2 units, but there are usually a good supply of fast attackers in my lands to counter swiftly if the AI does attack.

 

[gunkulator]

I build a warrior for each city but mainly just for MP purposes only. Once I get to Republic, I disband them all. Border cities get a couple real defenders.

 

[Zydiax]

I usually build one spearman for each city in the Ancient Ages, and then I might upgrade them if I feel a war is coming up but mostly only in important and border cities.

 

[vmxa]

Spears at Monarch, why built them? During despotism you have the MP effect, so go ahead and make 2 for each city. Make warriors and then horses, not spears.

Spears cannot attack and are of little value. They have def of 2, so does a sword, but it can attack. The AI is not going to be a problem in most games, so all you need to worry about is barbs.

You still have a nice boost Vs barbs at Monarch, so they are not an issue till you get to uprisings. By then you should have plenty of offensive units to deal with them or even to prevent them.

After you get to Republic, no value in MP units, so only have troops at the borders and places that any civ has shown it likes to land. The rest are intended to attack someone.

 

[Twonky]

There are few good reasons for building defence-units.
I use them mainly in artillery stacks I am sending to an enemy city through AI-land or to protect resources close to the borders (especially the precious iron mountains - the AI often loses a lot of units in these).

 

[Pentium]

I agree with Twonky. I haven't seen an attacker killing 10+ of units in one turn. Defenders in a city on hills can do it easily. And kill ratio is important in peace negotiations.
And of course to protect artillery. I don't want to lose my arty stack.

 

[AlanH]

An army of attackers is the best defence for an artillery stack. The AI will mostly leave an army alone if it contains three or four up to date units.

Barbs? Use them to promote your attackers. When an end-of-era rush of 32 horses appears you may do best to just let them pillage a nearby town undefended. 32 horses will probably kill a lot of defenders, so why let them? They take gold, so spend it all on embassies or techs before they arrive. They destroy your current shield stock, so try to rush anything big or let them have their way. They kill people and destroy improvements, but the nearby town is probably a relatively new frontier post with one or two citizens and no improvements. When they have taken everything there is in that town they don't start on another. They just keep attacking the same town and getting nothing for it.

 

[Twonky]

An army of attackers is the best defence for an artillery stack. The AI will mostly leave an army alone if it contains three or four up to date units.

Talking about artillery, "up to date" is the problem. In the Industrial Age it is a long way to the tanks, so your best offensive unit is the cavalry. Maybe I am a little coward, but my limited experience tells me that the AI will attack my Arty/Cav stack with his infanterie or guerilla without thinking twice...

btw, infanterie has the same attack value as cavalry.

 

[Vegasgustan]

Again, I have been playing this game for over a year now and I always put defenders in all my cities even under Republic. Jeez, I could have been getting better all this time and instead I am just going in slow motion. Alright, let me just see if I have this completely straight.

First, start off with a warrior or perhaps archer to MP your cities under Despotism. Once Republic is in place, upgrade the warriors to swords or what-not and send them out to the border or out to war. Then, just keep going....

One question though, if the game lasts to when you get Mech. Infantry would you build them? Since they are so strong?

 

[k-a-bob]

One question though, if the game lasts to when you get Mech. Infantry would you build them? Since they are so strong?

Modern Armor defends with 16, MI with 18. for 10 extra shields you get double the attack value and an extra movement point.

Example:
AI goes heavy on defense, in my huge map game they had SOD of 50 MI's.
I destroyed it with 20 MAs and arty (about 20) in just a few turns. oh and some bombers

 

[vmxa]

There are few good reasons for building defence-units.
I use them mainly in artillery stacks I am sending to an enemy city through AI-land or to protect resources close to the borders (especially the precious iron mountains - the AI often loses a lot of units in these).

OK, I got lost here. We were talking about spears and now you are tossing in Arties? That so far away from the AA as to be a different game. Lots of games will not even get to artillery.

Building defensive units is not always a no no, but spears is another story altogether. Even spears will have a place in my games from time to time.

I took my que from Aeson maybe as far back as two years ago, when he said he goes 2 or 3 games without building any spears. That is good enough for me. I have seen no reason since then to disagree with his point.

 

[vmxa]

One question though, if the game lasts to when you get Mech. Infantry would you build them? Since they are so strong?

First k-a-bob is correct and I will tend to prefer to make MA's, rather than MI. You cannot attack much with MI's.

That said, I will surely upgrade all the way to MI and units that can become MI. I will build some before MA's, if I need them. Hopefully I had enough units to upgrade to handle the defense.

If this is a contients Sid game, I will have lots of defenders, probably starting with muskets, but Rifles at least.

If this is an islands Sid game, I will have fewer defenders and they will be in armies. I like to land a bunch of armies and let them do the defending.

If it is a conquest game and I have to face tanks, I want infantry armies. If it gets to MI's, then I will want some of those, IF it is a fresh invasion. It is only the first counter I am concerned about. Once that disipates, I want to use my offensive armies to take down the towns.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

You of course need no Spears to actually defend your interior cities. Still, you need MP in the early game - and I rather build a 20sp unit with a cheap and useful upgrade path, than throw-away Warriors (since you hardly won't upgrade them in most games).
I just think those waste of 10sp early is worse*. And MI are great units - somehow I rarely see MAs, but MIs pretty often.
Same as I do send a few Spears along with the Swords when invading - if you get attacked, better loose a 20sp unit than a 30sp one.
Also, I for one do not really like to leave the presumable safe hinterland open - there are always Conquistadors. And sometimes the AI uses Berserks to capture (defended) coastal cities, and then reinforces with a shipload of Knights. This happens a lot more often in Mods - I'd in general stay away from undefended cities in RAR.
Of course, you could station Knights everywhere - but that isn't effective in terms of shields.
In the end, it's a question of playing style. If you prefer to play on levels you can easily handle, and go for high scores - no need for defenders.

*Edit: Actually, if you have a city making exactly 10sp it isn't that bad. The problem is, at that time many cities make like 7 or 8spt; thus, you waste 4-6sp for any Warrior you build.

 

[Hokie13]

I believe I will have to re-think things a bit in the future gamings...

I appreciate the responses!

Hokie13

 

[Crazy Eskimo]

I used to always have one defender per city... usually spearman, and then the rest would be attackers.

This may change with my moving up in difficulty. I have about ten cities and about as many warriors, only two or three of them actually in cities (I'm on an island, don't need to worry about invasion just yet). I will probably build some defensive units (I like to keep them around any invading force to protect against counterattack) but my main cities may not get as much as I've built in the past.

 

[AlanH]

My objective is always to own the starting continent before I get to infantry or mech infantry, and preferably to have finished the game by domination or conquest. On a pangeia that may not always be possible, and I seldom play bigger than large maps, so my experience is limited. But if you can get to this state then the sea is a wonderful natural defence. The AI is useless at amphibious assaults, typically sending obsolete units one or two at a time so you can defend an entire continent with a few fast offensive units - cavalry or knights.

As has been said, tanks and then modern armour will do a better job than MI when you are on the offensive in late industrial/modern eras. The AI is really very poor at building offensive units. When you attack, be prepared to lose a few units as they throw everything they have at you. After that they'll hunker down and build mostly defenders, and you'll see the occasional offensive unit. If you can pillage their rubber/saltpeter/horses, depending on level of technology, you'll pretty soon see longbows coming at you.

I'm afraid I disagree with Doc on taking cheaper units along as sacrificial defenders, but I admit I have far less experience than him . In general you'll have faster attackers than defenders, and the defenders will simply not keep up after the first beachhead stage of an engagement. In my view the difference in shield value is generally not enough to justify taking along something that, if it survives, will take no further part in the proceedings, vs taking a fast offensive unit that may add to your total attack capacity.

 

[vmxa]

I just think those waste of 10sp early is worse*. And MI are great units - somehow I rarely see MAs, but MIs pretty often.
Same as I do send a few Spears along with the Swords when invading - if you get attacked, better loose a 20sp unit than a 30sp one.
Also, I for one do not really like to leave the presumable safe hinterland open - there are always Conquistadors. And sometimes the AI uses Berserks to capture (defended) coastal cities, and then reinforces with a shipload of Knights. This happens a lot more often in Mods - I'd in general stay away from undefended cities in RAR.
Of course, you could station Knights everywhere - but that isn't effective in terms of shields.
In the end, it's a question of playing style. If you prefer to play on levels you can easily handle, and go for high scores - no need for defenders.

*Edit: Actually, if you have a city making exactly 10sp it isn't that bad. The problem is, at that time many cities make like 7 or 8spt; thus, you waste 4-6sp for any Warrior you build.

Doc, I think that you are correct about the playing at what ever level is easy for you, you can do what ever you like then.

It is at levels that you have some challenge that you need to take more care. That level is also a function of the start, as some Deity games are quite easy with the right start.

I cannot speak to mods, I don't use them, but I cannot imagine having Kinghts stationed everwhere, that seems to be a big waste.

I would say that some 10 shield warriors are easier to come up with than 20 shield spears, not to mention I may not even have the tech for spears.

Once I have horses, then I will make them, even though they are less effective on defense and offense than Swords. They are mobile and will allow me to get by with fewer units.

Often at the very earliest stage, it will be 7 turns to make a spear and 4 for a warrior (with waste). The difference means I get that MP value much sooner.

If I have to attack barbs, I would rather use warriors and have them die than spears. Often I will be much better off spending the extra money to upgrade that vet warrior to a sword as I am coming under pressure.

I still do not have any better defender in the AA than the sword and it is three times the attacker than a spear. I am not so concerned about the shields at this point as I am about lossing the battle.

So you may be correct if it is all about the cost in shields, but to me it is more about damage control and expansion. These task are not well suited for spears. Hopefully I have enough horses to use them and I do not have to upgrade any warriors.

Yes I will certainly use cheap units, if they are at hand as fodder to absorb counter bombarment from say archers. Or to maybe take off a hit point to soften up a tougher unit. I do not build units for that purpose, but if I have them....