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How much does a jungle start with Aztecs slow you down?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Priah77, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. Priah77

    Priah77 Chieftain

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    Ive been messing around playing Aztecs (deity), the jungle start has really started to feel like its slowing me down so much that Im just about ready to write off the entire civ. Does anyone else get this impression?

    Its if all of your luxuries are jungles youre essentially taking 6 extra turns to chop each of them down. I feel like the loss of gold from taking so much longer has to have an impact of slowing you down by a number of turns. Not to mention, the number of times where I have a start where there is literally not one single hammer in range without knocking down jungles.

    Is it legitimate to just turn off the start bias? I thought the start bias were intended to generally be beneficial :(
     
  2. Moriarte

    Moriarte Immortal

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    Yes it slows you down, but you can easily catch up when universities arrive. In fact, Aztec is the only civ i played at Deity and was able to secure science lead by mid game.

    Obviously, fast bronze working helps. Small hanging gardens can compensate for lack of early hammers. In some cases Liberty start can be beneficial, since Aztec have inbuilt growth bonuses anyway and workers will be chopping jungle down faster.

    Another bonus of being in the middle of jungle is relative safety from Deity rushes. All in all they are incredibly potent civ suitable for any kind of victory.

    I suggest not to turn off their start bias, but instead learn to improve their weakness into advantage.
     
  3. Priah77

    Priah77 Chieftain

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    I dont know, this sounds good... but some of the jungle starts are just freaking disturbingly bad. Like... not a single hammer within range and only two plantation luxuries - both under jungle. What the hell am I supposed to do with that start?

    Then again, I regard their UA as unbelievably good, especially later in the game. And yea, I suppose a jungle start does generally make you immune to early game rushes. Maybe I just need to accept that Ill be a few turns slower but it will balance out by the end of the game.
     
  4. kamex

    kamex Emperor

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    I'd like to hear more on this, I also find Aztecs to be hammer starved on most starts.
     
  5. mintcandy

    mintcandy King

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    I've never played the Aztecs on anything higher than Immortal, but I've rarely had a start of more than 3 Jungle tiles. Maybe I just got really good spots on the map?
     
  6. Waraddict

    Waraddict Chieftain

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    Oct 2, 2008
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    I like to play Moctezuma on tropical maps with the world age set to 3 M years. This pretty often result in a couple jungle riverside hills. If you are lucky you can even get a mixed jungle/flood plains start with desert hills.

    With a start with low/no hammer, i would open liberty for the free units, hammer per city and focus my capital on gold/science. Getting university and trading posts ASAP on all those jungle is paramount. With the free settler i would settle some production site nearby. Jungle are also good if you can grab the +1 culture from jungle pantheon. I would also try to keep at war to be able to steal workers, pillage tiles and get culture per kill.

    With a low hammer capital i would focus my strategy on getting a lot of gold to be able to buy what i need rather than build it. Many things can help in this aspect (trading resources obviously, the honour finisher combined with Aztec UA is a great gold/culture source if you keep some wars going on all along the game, tithe from religion, trading posts on jungles, economic science, Big Ben.

    On the bright side, Jaguars and jungle are your friends to defend early rushes on higher difficulty.
     
  7. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    I am currently playing a game to test this.
    Aztecs, Jungle start, Honor policy.
    I was able hold up askia who conquered Denmark and come to me with UU knights - when I had only Jaguar->swords and 2 CB.
    After (late) education I am getting ready to strike back, as I was catching up in Science quickly with a total 12 jungle field giving science multiplied by lib/uni/observatory/NC - we are now even in tech.
     
  8. kamikazees

    kamikazees Warlord

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    You've gotten really good maps. Normally there's a lot more jungle than that.
     
  9. Priah77

    Priah77 Chieftain

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    Id say at least a third of the maps I spawn for Aztecs have ONLY jungle in the cross, with not a single hammer in sight. Sorry, but Im not winning deity under those conditions! Ive just been cheesing and respawning :)
     
  10. omnishakira

    omnishakira Warlord

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    Aztec are godlike in jungle maps but ofc too much jungle ruins you cities
     
  11. iconocast

    iconocast Prince

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    aztecs will be hammer starved but they make up for this with massive growth
     
  12. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    Actually growth also bad, excep if you get bananas.

    I lost my test game btw. It went well but because I was a warmonger 5 civ ganged on me at the end :)
     

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