How much military do you need?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Calicea, Oct 11, 2011.

  1. Calicea

    Calicea Chieftain

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    I'm currently learning to play on Kind. I assuming that difficutly would be a factor, but how much military is it good to build up/maintain? I usually go for "peaceful" victories namely science and culture. However whenever I feel safe I end up in a war and are vastly outnumbered and can not fathom or I would maintain such a comparable army and still make progress towards my goal. Thanks in advance for the help :)
     
  2. Glassmage

    Glassmage The Desert Flame

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    Lots of archers.... and your own Unique Units.
     
  3. smallfish

    smallfish Immortal

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    a few, learn to maximize the most out of a small army with terrain modifiers, formations and promotions. It gets incredibly easier when you are in the Industrial Age.
     
  4. hung_h

    hung_h Chieftain

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    THe military will depend on the era.

    Early on, you can rush to swordsman. build a bunch of warriors, research iron, then upgrade your warriors. You can basically crush the crap outta any neighbor and steal their land and leave yourself the leader for the rest of the game.

    I find medieval era hard until you research Steel. again, upgrade and rush the crap outta them.

    Then it gets even cheaper once you research the cannon. those things just ruin the game because they are overpowered.

    Then once you get infantry, upgrade and rush them. The AI at this point will still be stupid and for some reason its really easy to destroy them with lots of infantry.

    Finally, tanks. They just kill everything. However, I win most games before that even happens.

    Lastly, if you do not take the opportunity to destroy the AI in any of these rushes and play on King, you will not succeed in your attempt. By the time you "build" and not "upgrade" these units before the industrial era, their cities will grow too powerful to beat and their army will be able to hold you off. This wastes a lot of production for a war that will result in a stalemate.

    most importantly though for all of these techniques is being able to maintain enough gold for research agreements. If you're use to the lower difficulties where its not even necessary to do this, you'll have a hard time.
     
  5. Fredric Drum

    Fredric Drum Civilizator

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    You need around 1/4 of the size of the computer controlled army to comfortably crush them. The CIV 5 AS (Artificial Stupidity) engine is highly advanced and capable of pulling off some very stupid moves indeed, so you don't need a huge army to fend them off, you just need to use your units wisely.
     
  6. Babri

    Babri Emperor

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    I don't think they are OP. Cities can attack them, they get terrain disadvantage so attacking a hilly city with cannons can be a nightmare. However Artillery can outrange almost all the units & it also gets the indirect fire ability.
     
  7. smallfish

    smallfish Immortal

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    How are they OP? It tends to be the first unit to get rushed by AI melee units when spotted, it has to spend a movement point to setup for an attack and is extremely vulnerable to said melees.

    Maybe you are looking for M:TW instead.;)
     
  8. MisterBoomBoom

    MisterBoomBoom King

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    I once went though half a game on emperor with buiding only an archer and spearman and eventually won a domination victory. However not the norm...three ranged weapons and two or three melee units are my basic formation. Pretty much all you really need. Turtle and play your opponents/science up...then pounce once you get artillery or frigates.

    The downside (or upside if you desire to be targeted) to this is the AI always thinks you "weak" and often backstabs. But this can easily be played to your advantage to promote up your limited units.
     
  9. CYZ

    CYZ Toileteer

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    If going peacefull the golden rule is: The more millitary you have the less you need.

    Other civs attack you based on the strength of your army (among other things). Having a weak army means you're asking to be invaded. Now there's two things you can do:

    a) build a big army to avoid being invaded. ''If you desire peace, prepare for war''
    b) build a small army and get ready to fight defensive wars

    In the case of a) you'll need about as many units or slightly more than your largest neighbours. In the case of b) you'll only need a small force, depending on terrain. On open terrain you'll obviously need more units. In this case building defensive buildings can be a good choice.
     
  10. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

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    Who were you and who were your AI? I am playing emperor as Catherine against Alexander on a huge map on one continent and Rome and Spain on another. The first go around, Alex brought up a settler and a knight and then Dow on my land. I chased him back and stole his settler. This happened in the 1200 AD and my game failed. He was always ahead of me in points and units. I did last until 1830.

    This game I expanded in the other direction towards him and went threw the Policy tree differently prepared for war. I have stayed ahead of him point wise and only had two scouts turned archer and then crossbow. One warrior turned pike and one built archer. He kept ragging on my sad state of affairs and lack of army, but never attacked. It is in the 1800's again and I am still ahead of him point wise. I am wondering if the point aspect has kept him at bay. His army is 200% bigger than mine and he could wipe me out easily. The only thing going for me is I am allied with 3 CS along his border that are equal to him and he may not want them fighting him either.

    I have earned only one golden age, but due to wonders and hitting the policies just right I did get a 33 turn golden age that did wonders for me building new cities and expanding faster than I would have on King. I am on epic also, but just playing this map differently preparing for war through my policy choices and expanding the other direction, the difference in the two attempts is amazing.

    I have succeded to avoid war by my policy choices and lack of units, as opposed to having a lot of units and poor choices in policy. Running too many units will put you in the red (gold wise) and I had to sell the free workers from the policy and building of the pyramids at a certain point, to even hold on to the few units I did have, but eventually and with the help of that 33 turn golden age I was able to manage. I usually jump at the CS's too soon and use up my gold that way, but with help of the krepost (needed for war) but also helps now in both culture and happiness, I post-poned Patronage until my 4th tree. The first try, I went Tradition, Patronage, and Piety. This time I went Tradition, Liberty, Piety, and then Patronage.

    The game is not over and Alex could still wipe me out, since he is stronger and getting to the modern era faster than I am, at least militarily wise. I was only two turns behind him to the industry era and that was only because I had a scientist give me biology instead of waiting the 25 turns it would have taken to obtain it. I also have had two research agreements with Rome and one with Spain. Of course Rome has finished the Manhatten project, so it is a good thing we are friends on different continents. Hopefully I can get a cultural win, but I look forward to waging war after all of us have finished the tech tree.
     
  11. Few

    Few Chieftain

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    A couple of days ago I won a cultural victory on Deity and only built 10 battleships late game to defend my continent :s. Apart from that I built 1 warrior and an archer to clear the barbarians of my continent.
     
  12. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Emperor

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    Nice! :goodjob:
     
  13. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

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    IMO, in Civ5 it depends on the relative strength of your immediate neighbors. You don't need to have the largest and most powerful army in the world, but you don't want the smallest and weakest or you're automatically the whipping boy for the rest of the world. As long as your military is comparable to any AI civs that could easily invade, you're relatively safe.

    Personally, if I'm not planning on military aggression myself, I don't build many units but I make sure I have the tech and infrastructure in place to quickly switch my nation to wartime footing if the need arises. Don't simply decide "I'm going for Science victory so no need to build Barracks," for example. Same with garrisons and city defense buildings like Walls, Castles, etc. Either have some in place for your most vulnerable border cities or maintain a large enough treasury surplus that you can purchase them outright if an AI decides to let loose the dogs of war.
     
  14. Capt Ajax

    Capt Ajax Warlord

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    Calicea,

    I to almost always play a non agressive game. I usually play epic or standard length on King level. I prefer HUGE maps + 22 civs + 12 city states with more land and less water with raging barbarians.

    My advice:

    Think small powerful / experienced army. I suggest developing the Honor policies first. Don't waste experienced units, withdraw them rather than lose them.

    Use raging barbarians to maximize the experience level of your units. Throw in Honor and you get added culture and an added combat advantage (25%) for each kill.

    I build two scouts to search the map and usually both end up promoted with in the first 50 turns. These units I keep for the duration....and continue to upgrade them.

    The idea of a small powerfull / peaceful army is to have as much expierence as possible and upgrade. SO...create your small upgradable army with mele units, unique units, and arty units. I build archers only on occasion and make them expendable because once your in the industrial age there range promotions are usless when upgraded to riflemen.

    Build good defences and place a fort or two in key locations where attacks are likely to come. Since your army is smaller that most AI's they will attack you. This is a good thing as it affords the opertunity for more unit promotions.

    CAUTION - If you get carried away with destroying an AI who has DOWd you, dont over extend yourself because you can and will attacked by another AI and then you will be crying the blues :cry:
     
  15. torfish

    torfish Chieftain

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    This is very good advice. I'm learning this now on my current game. Playing as Korea on KING level, going for a science win. Greece and Washington are my nieghbors on a small contenient. I'm inbetween them. War War War 75% of my game so far, I'm around the 1950's. I definitely needed the walls and castles building for defense to hold them off. I have used cannons garrisioned in my two cities and would buy another unit if the surge was too great. This is my most interesting game yet!
     
  16. Calicea

    Calicea Chieftain

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    I really like this advice as well as the one mentioned by the poster above me. Thanks
     
  17. vanjito

    vanjito Warlord

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    Archers with double terrain promotion and March promote nicely to Rifles, get 2 of those :)
     
  18. Capt Ajax

    Capt Ajax Warlord

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    As I said in my last post, I'm not sure that is correct.

    Example: If you promote an archer to Accuracy I- +20% ranged combat strength against unit in open terrain (no hills/forest/jungle) THEN later you upgrade this unit to a Rifleman.

    Rusult = A rifleman (melee unit) with a ranged promotion.....so you get naada for a combat modifier because the rifleman unit can not use a ranged promotion.

    When you build a NEW rifleman unit, you do not have the option for ranged promotions like the one above (Accuracy I). You have to choose from the Melee line which is Drill I- +20% combat strength when fighting in rough terrain (hills/forest/jungle).

    THE BIG SUCK: Having a first class ranged unit (Archer / Crossbowman) with Accuracy I, II, III, & perhaps the Range or Logistics promotion and having to promote to Rifleman in the industrial era and losing all your modifiers.... :vomit:

    The AI judges your strength not just on the size of your army but also on strength of individual units added to a sum, so it's wise to keep the unit.....here is what I do.

    ANSWER: Use mainly Arty units for ranged attack, you can upgrade them all the way until the end of the game. Promote archers and crosbowman with promotions that all units can use like healing promotions. At least this way you will have some damn good medics in you evolving army. Of course this stratigy is baised on small empires with small professional armies. If you prefer a sprawling empire with a huge army hell-bent on world domination, then by all means please ignore this whole post and spam archers that will make powerful crossbowman units which are all expendable.
     
  19. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

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    For a defensive force, geography is very important in knowing how many units you'll need, and what kind. A lot of flat ground with no rivers can be difficult to defend, and you want a few strong melee units with open ground promotions, supported by ranged and mounted units. If you are defending a hilly area with rivers, you can get away with a much smaller force. In that case often just a few archers/xbows is all you need for a long time. If there are lots of forests but no hills, ranged are not as useful and again you need more melee (this time with rough promotions)
     
  20. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Emperor

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    This has been broken for a relatively long time so I'm a bit surprised that it wasn't addressed in a patch. Ideally, when you upgrade a ranged unit to Rifleman you would get back all of the points that were formerly devoted to Ranged promos so that you could apply them to as appropriate to a melee unit. I'm not holding my breath on that one. :gripe:
     

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