How Much Should We Lie to Children?

DNK

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Well, where to start? Parents and society lie to children all the time. One could argue that in most respects the "world" children are brought into is vastly different than the one they eventually will live in. We can start with the simple stuff like Santa Claus, but we can also include historical/etc fallacies and outlooks (like focusing on ridiculous, false trivia like Washington's supposed super-honesty and tree chopping rather than actual events), and modern-day fallacies.

I mean, a lot of things kids learn don't get retaught sufficiently, and that foundation will serve them for a long time until it is appropriately challenged by new experience.

Now he learns some things later on, sure, but that fundamental image and perspective aren't easily shaken.

The framing of the story is just as important as the story. He gets told eventually of reality, but it's told in a soothing tone, he is reassured by the authority figure handing him the new information that it isn't something to be worried about. His mother, his teacher, he trusts them. Attacking his belief is attacking that figure also.

And now you come to one of the great dilemmas: how to get people to put in the time and effort to realize that things are not what they seem (it's actually quite a regular thing), when everything they heard as a child said otherwise? They have at this point a very resistant outlook, and for many reasons. And in large part that's because they grew into a lifestyle that was founded on that romantic perspective, and having grown used to it and having become complicit in the system, they now have significant psychological mechanisms at work against new learning.

So, why fill their heads with lies and romanticized falsities in the first place? Why teach people crap that is fundamentally wrong, misleading, or unimportant in the first place? Why teach them that authority figures lying to them is acceptable practice? Why teach them that they are too stupid to think for themselves, that they need someone else to manipulate them, handle the truth for them?

Aren't we just raising a society of weak-minded people? Why lie? What benefit does it serve?

Santa Claus is the devil in disguise to all but the dyslexic (ooh, quotable!)
 
We shouldn't lie to children at all. Sometimes revealing every detail of the truth isn't wise either, but this can usually be avoided without introducing falsehoods.


(I don't think my parents ever mentioned Santa until we were old enough that most the kids in our class knew he wasn't real, at which point they did it in a teasing and annoying way. I believe my first reaction to hearing that Santa Claus isn't real was: Who?)
 
I don't think children should be lied to at all. maybe if they're incapable of understanding something, but I've yet to come across a child that couldn't understand anything if adequately explained.

As to why we do it, probably because most people were raised that way themselves, and just don't know any better.
 
As little as possible. Though I don't think we should be worrying too much about Santa Claus and stuff. A little healthy fantasy doesn't hurt.
K... so how is Santa healthy?

And, to Magister, what details aren't appropriate? Let us speak details, I desire more than simple opinions on the title of the thread, else I would have made a poll of sorts :king:
 
I will add another vote for "not at all". My parents never lied to me and I will never lie to my son. There may be simplified answers to complicated questions but there will be no falsehoods.

They did do the "Santa Claus comes to deliver presents" thing, but it was always understood to be a game of "let's pretend" and it was really my Dad (usually; some years someone else played the role) in costume.
 
if its not true, its a lie, its pretty black and white.....
 
I think Santa is very unhealthy. I would never tell any kid such a bizarre and damaging lie.

People tell their kids that some guy breaks into their house, but it is good because he brings gifts.

Then, a few years later, the kids find out that noone has been breaking into their house (probably much to their relief) and there is no Santa.

Lesson the kids learn: It is sometimes ok to flat-out lie to the people you love for many years.

Good job teaching your kids, people. Don't be too surprised when someone convinces them to lie to you for years... for your own good, of course. But hey, maybe they'll tell you the truth eventually, just like you did with Santa.
 
I just realised that while we shouldn't lie to children, we should teach them how to lie. Useful skill.
 
I just realised that while we shouldn't lie to children, we should teach them how to lie. Useful skill.

That's kinda what we do with Santa. The lesson being that to have a really good lie, get alot of other people (and advertisement) in on it with you. To make a good (if short-lived) lie... create a vast conspiracy.

I dunno, maybe some parents do it just to see the look on the kid's face when it discovers that its parents have been deceiving them for years. :backstab:
 
While I don't feel like I would ever tell my kids about santa because I'm not much for the holidays, my lady would. It's not about lying, it's about a holiday tradition. Only the really dramatic among us would claim that being told there was a santa claus somehow damaged us in a real way. Kids are going to lie. It isn't because of their parents telling them there was a santa or some other lie, it's because they don't want to get into trouble.

Like someone above said, are you guys only reading non fiction to your kids at night before they go to bed? Some kids grow up in not so nice circumstances so to lie to them to make the world seem a little nicer for at least a little bit of their lives seems like a good thing.
 
if its not true, its a lie, its pretty black and white.....

That is not true; a lie is defined as an untruth presented as truth by one who does not believe it to be truth. Untruths told by those who really believe them are just honest mistakes.
 
Like someone above said, are you guys only reading non fiction to your kids at night before they go to bed?

There's a BIG difference between fiction and lying. Unless you hide that it is fiction or pretend it is not (like with Santa), then fiction is not a lie - it's just fiction.

There's a big difference between "I'm going to read you a story" (presumably not a true story, just a little book story) and "A big fat guy busts into our house".

And flying raindeer?? How is a kid supposed to work that into his worldview?? It's so screwed up. It's the same thing as telling your kid that unicorns really exist. And then you wonder why they believe ridiculous crap when they get older.
 
That's kinda what we do with Santa. The lesson being that to have a really good lie, get alot of other people (and advertisement) in on it with you. To make a good (if short-lived) lie... create a vast conspiracy.

I dunno, maybe some parents do it just to see the look on the kid's face when it discovers that its parents have been deceiving them for years. :backstab:
It was your post that made me think of it, actually.

If I ever have kids, I'm teaching them to read as soon as possible, then giving them a copy of The Prince.
 
Don't you go social engineering ubermenchs! You'll just get them in trouble. :)

At least have them read Crime and Punishment also, so they will recognize the realization that they are not when the time comes.
 
I suppose there is. By not telling them about the atrocities that have been put upon the world in graphic detailo then maybe you are lying by way of ommision about the world then? Or are we saying that you just shouldn't tell them anything?
 
Or are we saying that you just shouldn't tell them anything?

Yes, I'm sure this is the predominant argument. Don't make me rollie-eyes you.

Look, not telling your kid that you got a . .. .. .. .. .. .. . from his mom last night =/= lying.

Not showing your kid photos of the war carnage =/= lying.

Telling your kids that a big fat guy busts into their house and has flying raindeer = lying.
 
Don't you go social engineering ubermenchs! You'll just get them in trouble. :)

At least have them read Crime and Punishment also, so they will recognize the realization that they are not when the time comes.
I'm socially engineering conniving backstabbers, not Nazi supermen. Yet.
 
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