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How much time passes between turns?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by DJGamer, Sep 6, 2014.

  1. DJGamer

    DJGamer Chieftain

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    I remember there being a table with how much time passes between each turn on the different game speeds, but I can't for the life of me find it. Can someone link me to it?
     
  2. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    I'd be particularly interested in such a table.
     
  3. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    IF there was such a table for C2C it would be outdated with each new version.

    I've been a tester from day 1 and I've never seen one.

    JosEPh :)
     
  4. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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  5. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    That's useful to know. These are the current Eternity settings, for instance:

    Spoiler :
    Code:
    <GameTurnInfo>
    		<iMonthIncrement>480</iMonthIncrement>
    		<iTurnsPerIncrement>500</iTurnsPerIncrement>
    	</GameTurnInfo>
    	<GameTurnInfo>
    		<iMonthIncrement>360</iMonthIncrement>
    		<iTurnsPerIncrement>500</iTurnsPerIncrement>
    	</GameTurnInfo>
    	<GameTurnInfo>
    		<iMonthIncrement>168</iMonthIncrement>
    		<iTurnsPerIncrement>500</iTurnsPerIncrement>
    	</GameTurnInfo>
    	<GameTurnInfo>
    		<iMonthIncrement>60</iMonthIncrement>
    		<iTurnsPerIncrement>800</iTurnsPerIncrement>
    	</GameTurnInfo>
    	<GameTurnInfo>
    		<iMonthIncrement>36</iMonthIncrement>
    		<iTurnsPerIncrement>1000</iTurnsPerIncrement>
    	</GameTurnInfo>
    	<GameTurnInfo>
    		<iMonthIncrement>12</iMonthIncrement>
    		<iTurnsPerIncrement>1500</iTurnsPerIncrement>
    	</GameTurnInfo>
    	<GameTurnInfo>
    		<iMonthIncrement>8</iMonthIncrement>
    		<iTurnsPerIncrement>1200</iTurnsPerIncrement>
    	</GameTurnInfo>
    	<GameTurnInfo>
    		<iMonthIncrement>4</iMonthIncrement>
    		<iTurnsPerIncrement>600</iTurnsPerIncrement>
    	</GameTurnInfo>
    	<GameTurnInfo>
    		<iMonthIncrement>3</iMonthIncrement>
    		<iTurnsPerIncrement>1200</iTurnsPerIncrement>
    	</GameTurnInfo>
    	<GameTurnInfo>
    		<iMonthIncrement>1</iMonthIncrement>
    		<iTurnsPerIncrement>1800</iTurnsPerIncrement>
    	</GameTurnInfo>
    	<GameTurnInfo>
    		<iDayIncrement>12</iDayIncrement>
    		<iTurnsPerIncrement>1825</iTurnsPerIncrement>
    	</GameTurnInfo>
    	<GameTurnInfo>
    		<iMonthIncrement>1</iMonthIncrement>
    		<iTurnsPerIncrement>2880</iTurnsPerIncrement>

    (Which begs the question: shouldn't the last entry be iDayIncrement, rather than iMonthIncrement?)
     
  6. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    No... the last stage moves back towards lengthening per turn.

    I've worked these values before and it was a nightmare. I had it pretty good I thought and it certainly was an improvement. Then it got reworked twice since then and I sorta threw up my hands and stopped being willing to look at it again. This may be a good arrangement... I really can't say til we get into the later game. It works alright in the beginning.
     
  7. GT Ranma

    GT Ranma Slowest of the Slow

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    Yes... we understand that from the chart. I think he was asking WHY it goes back up from days to months?

    I believe, the idea behind it is to simulate that with the bigger economy it will take less and less time to what took more time previously.

    The idea of what use to take 1 month to make something, now takes 12 days is how it works at the end. So why can anyone rationalize that all of a sudden the tech takes a leap backwards and now that they are even smarter, it takes 1 month to make the building instead of 12 days again. And image the huge leap backwards in GNP, you were making 2,000G per 12 days, now you are making 800g per 12 days, but since a turn is now 1 month instead of 12 days, you are making 2,000g per month....
     
  8. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    I've been adjusting gamespeeds and wanted to know if it's possible to remove dates completely from the game, anyone know this?
    It is impossible to adjust it to fit the players technology level as there are too many factors that can change the balance, like difficulty, map size, and such.
    It doesn't really give anything to the game and is only a nuisance for modders.

    Spoiler :
    About the last entry in the earlier discussed date chart seen in the spoiler of post #5:
    <iMonthIncrement>1</iMonthIncrement>
    <iTurnsPerIncrement>2880</iTurnsPerIncrement>
    This is 240 years over the last 2880 turns

    2880 months equals an integer amount of years and not a decimal, a decimal here would crash the game. So if one wants specific amount of total turns and end dates then it gets real hard using days per increment (One year equals 365 days in C2C). The modder that chose this last entry just gave up trying to get it right as it is extremely hard mathematically to get it right, especially if one want a specific number of total years to pass within a specific number of total turns.

    Sure the closest thing that could have been reached while using iDaysIncrements would have been:
    210 years over the last 2920 turns.
    <iDayIncrement>30</iDayIncrement>
    <iTurnsPerIncrement>2920</iTurnsPerIncrement>

    238 years over the last 2555 turns.
    <iDayIncrement>34</iDayIncrement>
    <iTurnsPerIncrement>2555</iTurnsPerIncrement>


    See excel chart if you are curious on how it works: Download link
    -Each row is for an entry in the XML.
    -Only "years" and "turns" columns in the large table are to be adjusted manually.
    -There are two examples that represents two different game speeds.
    -You can try making a third example for 6006 total turns by adjusting turns and years for each xml entries to get an integer "ixIncrement" number, be it year, month or day.
    -You have to keep the sum of turns at the same amount as well as keeping the sum of years close to 60 000 years. You'll see that it's not easy to always have the game go faster in-game date-wise.

    Here is an example of how the top/first excel-example would look like in XML:
    Spoiler :
    Code:
                <GameTurnInfos>
                    <GameTurnInfo>
                        <iYearIncrement>100</iYearIncrement>
                        <iTurnsPerIncrement>300</iTurnsPerIncrement>
                    </GameTurnInfo>
                    <GameTurnInfo>
                        <iYearIncrement>10</iYearIncrement>
                        <iTurnsPerIncrement>1000</iTurnsPerIncrement>
                    </GameTurnInfo>
                    <GameTurnInfo>
                        <iYearIncrement>6</iYearIncrement>
                        <iTurnsPerIncrement>1000</iTurnsPerIncrement>
                    </GameTurnInfo>
                    <GameTurnInfo>
                        <iYearIncrement>5</iYearIncrement>
                        <iTurnsPerIncrement>1000</iTurnsPerIncrement>
                    </GameTurnInfo>
                    <GameTurnInfo>
                        <iYearIncrement>4</iYearIncrement>
                        <iTurnsPerIncrement>1000</iTurnsPerIncrement>
                    </GameTurnInfo>
                    <GameTurnInfo>
                        <iYearIncrement>3</iYearIncrement>
                        <iTurnsPerIncrement>1000</iTurnsPerIncrement>
                    </GameTurnInfo>
                    <GameTurnInfo>
                        <iYearIncrement>2</iYearIncrement>
                        <iTurnsPerIncrement>1000</iTurnsPerIncrement>
                    </GameTurnInfo>
                    <GameTurnInfo>
                        <iYearIncrement>1</iYearIncrement>
                        <iTurnsPerIncrement>810</iTurnsPerIncrement>
                    </GameTurnInfo>
                    <GameTurnInfo>
                        <iMonthIncrement>1</iMonthIncrement>
                        <iTurnsPerIncrement>1440</iTurnsPerIncrement>
                    </GameTurnInfo>
                    <GameTurnInfo>
                        <iDayIncrement>1</iDayIncrement>
                        <iTurnsPerIncrement>1460</iTurnsPerIncrement>
                    </GameTurnInfo>
                </GameTurnInfos>
    Note: iYearIncrement doesn't work in C2C.

    Edit (18. March 2017): Here is a improved edition of the excel sheet, numbers used are based on C2C rev. 9514
    Difference from
    It has been tweaked to avoid CTD's taht occur if iMonthIncrement * iTurnsPerIncrement / 12 equals a decimal number, and not a whole year. Same goes for iDayIncrement * iTurnsPerIncrement / 365
    It was also tweaked to change the total turn numbers and to have a start date of 200 000 BC instead of 50 000 BC.

    Updated excel: Download Link

    @JosEPh_II:
    This is the calendar change I said I was going to commit today, No need for that now though, since you picked up the torch on it, thanks for that.
    Maybe the excel I used for adjusting the calendar can be of some use to you. ^^
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
    KaTiON_PT likes this.
  9. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Yes Afforess did it at one time for A New Dawn (AND). You can always PM him for the specifics.

    And while I agree with you that Dates hamper the game, be warned that many players will "pitch a fit" if they are removed. So if you do it be Thick Skinned and Stand Your Ground. Afforess caved in after awhile. ;)

    JosEPh
     
  10. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    :goodjob:
    I will contact him, and if I manage to replicate what he did it will at least stay in my civic modmod; forever.:crazyeye:
     
  11. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    If you're going to do it, at least make it an option. Some people like to have dates to pretend that the game is historical, after all.
     
  12. Harrier

    Harrier Deity

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    It is also a distraction - "I'm 3000 years ahead of this era etc. - is it a bug or what!"

    I would remove dates, but as Arakhor said, make it an option or modmod.
     
  13. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Yes it is possible and there are already places where the option can be put. Look at what Platyping did.
     
  14. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    While I understand this, it's a shame that just having Eras isn't sufficient. Just the transition from Era to Era would give a general "time frame" of reference for those that wish to pretend.

    For me Turn count is much more significant. Can I get to Tribalism on Epic by turn 200, for example? Or Sed Life by turn 350? But this is just mpo. :)

    JosEPh
     
  15. Noriad2

    Noriad2 Emperor

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    I would have no problem with dates being replaced by eras (prehistoric era etc.) as the current system clearly isn't working as people expect and it is hard to fix that.
     
  16. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

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    Maybe something like:

    "Currently: Prehistoric era: 50.000 BC - 6.000 BC"?
     
  17. Noriad2

    Noriad2 Emperor

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    Looks good. But if you are going to add the year, the era of the highest advanced civ should be decisive, which is not necessarily the player's civ.
     
  18. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    How exactly would that be displayed? It would just be easier to have an option to turn off year display like you can turn off the clock, era, turns etc.
     
  19. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    It would be displayed exactly as he wrote it, as a static number range that only changes when the era change. This would inform you what timeframe each era represents, not which specific year in that era you are currently at. I could probably manage to get it displayed, but I feel it's unnecessary and that it decides that the players era is the correct one date-vise, just seems strange.

    As of now I've only figured out how to remove it from the HUD in the python script; it seams possible to make it an option but as I've never done anything in python in my life I might give up on that. Also I will not spend literary 100's of hours trying to get the date somewhat correct throughout a game for all game-speeds. This would seriously cripple my ability to work on the civics.
     
  20. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    Which is then meaningless, because we already have such a display - it's called the era name in the turn/time display.
     

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