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How much will you pay to stop abortion?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Mark1031, Oct 3, 2005.

?

How much would you pay to stop abortion?

  1. Nothing, I am pro-choice

    83.6%
  2. Nothing, I am pro-life

    2.7%
  3. $100/yr

    4.1%
  4. $1000/yr

    1.4%
  5. $10,000/yr

    4.1%
  6. Up to 1/2 my yearly income

    4.1%
  1. Mark1031

    Mark1031 Deity

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    The aim is to get you to think about what the consequenses of what you advocate are. Personal responsibility you know.
     
  2. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

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    Even so, the amount of abortions would decrease dramatically. And criminalizing abortion, even by the mother, would help as well.

    I sincerely doubt that there are many women who would rather die than have a child. Get real. :p And even if there were then they are insane and belong in an asylum anyway.

    I don't have a problem with taxes. It's unfair taxes based on ideology that get's me riled up.

    As cgannon said, this whole thread is about getting Pro-Lifers to name a number about how much this means to them and then ridicule them for it. Maybe I should start a thread on how much Pro-choice people would pay to keep abortion legal. I think I will.
     
  3. JohnRM

    JohnRM Don't make me destroy you

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    A child needs a roof over his/her head, clothes on his/her back, and food in his/her stomach. That does not cost $10,000 per year. I barely pay more than $10,000 a year for my living (of course I am very intelligent with my spending). In any case, the majority of children do not grow up in middle class households and these children should recieve what they need, not what the middle of the road is.
     
  4. JohnRM

    JohnRM Don't make me destroy you

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    That is acceptable. I can live with allowing nature to take its course. If these women go to back-alley doctors or take some homemade drug and end up killing or hurting themselves, then so be it. I have no problem allowing them to compound one mistake with another.

    Furthermore, I would support a move to prosecute any woman (or man, if acting as an accessory) for the crime if they are proven to have had or attempted an abortion. This criminal act would be punishable in the very same manner as murder (with exception to death penalty) or the offender could opt to be castrated and serve a lesser term.
     
  5. CurtSibling

    CurtSibling ENEMY ACE™ SLeague Staff Supporter

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    That is a ridiculous statement, similar to a hippy saying 'War is bad'...

    You fail to take any of the factors of this issue into account.

    All you care about is the sentimentalisms of your indocrination.

    .
     
  6. CurtSibling

    CurtSibling ENEMY ACE™ SLeague Staff Supporter

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    Your hatred and hypocrisy is very clear in this instance.

    By the same benchmark I would like to see the leaders of your church
    arrested and tried for murder, for the crimes of mass-starvation, AIDs
    and over-population - Caused by anti-contraception policies...

    It goes both ways.

    If a christian starves to death, through refusing to curb their mass
    breeding beyond what their economy can support...Well so be it...

    Let one mistake compound another.

    .
     
  7. Kayak

    Kayak Partisan

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    Your comment made me think. What positive things would you do to stop abortions. I believe that this is really the point of this thread. Your negative incentives are pretty barbaric BTW. How would you punish someone who refused medical treatment for their children based on Biblical texts?

    @Elrohir, I'm interested in what you consider and unfair ideological tax.
     
  8. Mark1031

    Mark1031 Deity

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    This is hilarious, I guess I really hit a nerve. First saying you would give your life for something prior to supporting a general tax increase to pay for this something is either indicative of having a problem with taxes or rationality or likely both. Second the point of the thread is to indicate that there will be a social cost to prohibiting abortion. In the typical scenario of overturning Roe v. Wade all you will do is increase the number of poor women in the South bearing unwanted children. This will put an added cost on society and I'm asking how much you're willing to pay of this cost. I had another thread on the issue of the overburdened foster care system in this country which very few abortion opponents commented in. I must say FL2 is the only person who has really thought about the ramifications of his position :goodjob: . If raising this issue causes you to feel as if somebody is pointing out the hypocrisy of a movement (the conservative movement) which on the one hand purports to have such intense love of children and life that is willing to fight to the death for the survival of a microscopic cell yet at the same time tolerates and never speaks of the hideous conditions of the foster care system and all of the poor unwanted uneducated future prison rape victims or is willing to pay one dime to alter the frequency at which this life course plays out for many people in this country then so be it.
     
  9. Mark1031

    Mark1031 Deity

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    Well it is definitely more than 1000 to 3000/yr. Kids outgrow clothes and shoes faster and require more medical care than healthy adults. Plus you have to factor in the cost of the caregiver as well as the crack and other disabled kids that would result. But whatever, you're in the ballpark I would say in terms of estimates of the number of kids and whether it's 3000 or 10,000 per year averaged over the whole country it is really not that big of a cost. I do predict that you would have more social costs down the road with increased crime rates social dependency among these unwanted children but that isn't the immediate issue.
     
  10. nonconformist

    nonconformist Miserable

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    What an amusing thread.
     
  11. JohnRM

    JohnRM Don't make me destroy you

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    I do not hate.

    Furthermore, I do not attend any church. I am an Independent Monotheist, although sometimes I refer to myself as a Christian. I do my own independent studies and evaluation, in so far as it relates to my belief in God.

    Therefore, since I do not assign myself to any specific sect of any specific religion, I therefore cannot take responsibility for nor do I relate to all of the principles established by those organizations.

    I, personally, support the use of contraceptives, including the use of the morning-after pill.

    Finally, if any person starves to death, that is survival of the fittest. So be it, indeed, though I hardly believe that this will become anymore commonplace with abortion criminalized than it is now that it is legal.

    It is interesting how you relate abortion to AIDs and over-population, along with all of the effects thereof. Neither of these two issues are impacted, greatly, one way or the other by the abortion issue.
     
  12. JohnRM

    JohnRM Don't make me destroy you

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    In my estimation, if couples were better informed and more responsible, they would make better decisions. Parents have to teach their children, these things. Therefor, the goal should be to decrease the tax burden, decrease the cost of living, and provide safer and cleaner neighborhoods for these families to live in.

    If you want to stop steroid use in Major League Baseball, make the penalty for the first offense, permanent explusion from the sport. If you want to *****-foot around and allow these people to use the drugs, then continue with these weak first offense warnings, second offense four-game suspensions, etcetera.

    Parents would be prohibited by law from refusing life-saving medical treatment from being performed on their child, with exception to cases in which the quality of life thereafter would be poor. The exact determination of the meaning of "poor quality of life" would have to be determined somehow. I am not the person for that.
     
  13. Mark1031

    Mark1031 Deity

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    Well I believe abortions fell under Clinton and are rising again under Bush. So the democrats are the only ones doing things to actually lower abortion numbers. ;) . Now I think this mainly has to do with the economic situation. When the economy looks good and people feel secure finacially they are more likely to bare even unexpected children. What a surprise, human beings actually like their offspring they just want to be able to care for them.
     
  14. JohnRM

    JohnRM Don't make me destroy you

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    The cost of increased crime rate could be more than offset by legalizing drugs.

    There is one major issue with the raising of children that has stumped me, and that is the parents. The biological parents would be forbidden from ever obtaining custody, in the future. However, children still require parents or other parental figures that can give them one on one attention. This would require some thought and planning, but I am sure that it can be done. Also, you are correct about the costs of the caregiving and medical expenditures. It had not crossed my mind.

    Also, it has occured to me that some of these children would be adopted. There is a long waiting line for infants, already. Of course, the waiting list is primarily for white infants, but nonetheless, some would be adopted.
     
  15. JohnRM

    JohnRM Don't make me destroy you

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    Actually, abortions appear to be leveling off under Bush, according to estimates.

    Since abortion was legalized in 1973, there have been an estimated total of 45,951,133 abortions.

    The peak of abortion was in 1990, at an estimated 1,608,600 abortions. It has been on decline, ever since, leveling off in 2002, with an estimated 1,293,000 abortions.
     
  16. Mark1031

    Mark1031 Deity

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    That is good. I don't think Clintonor Bush per se are responsible, I suspect it just relates to economic security and the size of the population in the abortion prone age group.
     
  17. JohnRM

    JohnRM Don't make me destroy you

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    I just want to say, quickly, that I am not hateful of women whom have abortions. I do not take pleasure in contemplating the pain and hardship that I would have them endure if I were in charge. I honestly believe that, in many ways not even related to religious views, that abortion has a negative impact on our society.
     
  18. Bozo Erectus

    Bozo Erectus Master Baker

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    Naahh, lowers the crime rate remember?
     
  19. Kayak

    Kayak Partisan

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    1)I think you are overestimating parent's knowledge and ability to teach kids about sex. Remember no one has taught them. This also fails to address groups, that for various reasons, will not discuss contraception.
    2)Assuming that there is a judicial process I would not disagree with this too much. The problem is that this can not be translated into other types of crime easily.
    3)No offence meant here but it seems to me that you are very willing to impose your beliefs on others and you say you take no pleasure in the pain or suffering that they would endure under your system. I would be wary, I can envision a Lenin or Pol Pot saying something very similar. The ends do not often justify the means and human nature has not been defeated yet.
     
  20. GenMarshall

    GenMarshall Night Elven Ghost Agent

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    As much to stop the immoral act of manualy aborting fetuses.
     

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