1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

How much would you pay for an AI overhaul?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Tyrus, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. Tyrus

    Tyrus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    44
    How much money would you fork over for a Civ 5 expansion that overhauls the AI in the following way:

    - Difficulty levels no longer grant any handicaps or bonuses to AI
    - Difficulty levels are now based on AI skill level
    - The AI, at higher levels, is amazingly good at playing the game

    How much is that worth to you, in dollars? Brutal AI amphibious invasions from overseas, cunning and intelligent diplomacy, meaningful alliances, the AI swooping in to save an ally in trouble, positioning, scheming, backstabbing, opportunism and an AI that can manage an army like a real tactician with feints, counterattacks, bluffs and last stands.

    Okay, how much guys? How much money would leave your wallet?
     
  2. comatosedragon

    comatosedragon Emperor

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,079
    Location:
    Rockingham VA {616}
    I am probably in the minority here, but I would pay for an AI overhaul like that. ($9.99)
     
  3. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,873
    it's probably not possible or at least not feasible, to design an AI that way.

    that being said I would easily pay an expansion worth, if it was legit.
     
  4. jacer21

    jacer21 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    Location:
    Canada
    I agree. I have a feeling making smart AI is harder than people usually think. I do think, however, that the current AI could use a few tweaks. I would rather see it come in a patch or third expansion rather than just a DLC though.
     
  5. adwcta

    adwcta King

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    889
    Location:
    New York City, USA
    Assuming it comes with exploit fixes and social policy tweaks for balance.... at least 30$, likely up to 150$.

    I play single player, higher difficulties exclusively. And, I love a challenge. Would pay handsomely to have the game knock me back down to King and force me to improve.

    Frankly, I've gotten so much value out of Civ V, in retrospect I'd gladly have paid 200$ for the game to begin with. I think I've actually paid maybe 50$. So, frankly, Fraxis/ 2k deserve another 150$ anyway.
     
  6. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,950
    If you'd only pay ten bucks for it then you obviously don't actually want that kind of AI overhaul.

    You guys do realize that what the op is asking for has never been done by a game designer ever, right? The amount of innovation required to build an AI that makes moves as intelligent as those of a human player in a game with random starts and countless variables would require an amount of money that I can't even fathom. Certainly more than the Civ community would or even could provide. We're talking like, US government contract type crap here. The AI you want would probably be more useful to the military than a game designer.

    Personally I'd absolutely pay for an expansion devoted to balancing the game and improving the AI but we've gotta be a little realistic here. You're not going to get an AI good enough to compete with Deity players unless you give the AI handicaps.
     
  7. Helmling

    Helmling Philosopher King

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,677
    Isn't there a Mod that improves the AI? I thought I read about one, but never tried it.

    I would pay $10 for a DLC that ramped up the AI, sure, and I do think it's quite possible. For example, the AI's biggest shortcoming is in combat. It would be possible to program the AI to follow a few pre-programmed tactical patterns that would make it more formidable on the battlefield. I think the biggest impediment, though, to a better combat AI is the complexity of maneuvering units over terrain with 1UP.

    I really think 1UP was the biggest mistake in the design of Civ V. It complicated unit movement and created absurdities like archers that can shoot over hills. Hexes are great, but they should've let units stack by class--infantry, ranged, etc. The AI could probably have dealt with those restrictions much better.
     
  8. Cedbird

    Cedbird Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Messages:
    217
    Funny you go that high.Of course everyone is different so business wise some may not go as high as me and you so it might not be a good idea.But I would start at $100.Easy I would pay that much for the next Civ.I can 't sit at home knowing there is a new Civ out and I don 't have it.Been playing since Civ 3.
    But I also heard before the same as above that it is not possible what you are asking.So I will settle for an Ai like we had in Civ 4.I know it was more difficult especially the amphibious invasions which I started a special thread for a few months back.I have noticed a couple of impressive amphib invasions but not enough.I don 't fear an AI knocking at my door like I used to in Civ 4.I used to station my ships on my coast on the look out for enemy ships.Civ 5 no worries.That alone would change the face of the game enough for me.Knowing you can 't bad mouth the guy across the ocean makes a big difference.
     
  9. aimlessgun

    aimlessgun King

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    782
    Let's say this impossible AI somehow is developed for Civ5, and Civ5 only, and doesn't show up in any game afterwards.

    I'd pay over 1000$ easily. Because it would make Civ5 the greatest strategy game to exist in my entire lifetime until I die. Civ5 and Civ5 mods would be so far ahead of anything else that I'd be spending that 1000$ on the last single player game I'd ever buy.

    In realistic possibilities, if 2k came out with an AI DLC and promised it would be better (but no gaurantees on anything), I might spend 5-10$ because I'm not expecting a whole lot :)
     
  10. isau

    isau Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,053
    I'm sure the governments of the USA, Russia, and China would pay a hefty sum for such an AI. They could use it to pilot their spaceships.

    (Half kidding. No negativity implied. But yeah, such an AI is probably out of reach.)
     
  11. Jacozilla

    Jacozilla Warlord

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    209
    For my play style at least, and I suspect many here, you can raise the AI challenge at least a couple notches just by enforcing ironman mode on yourself.

    Human players will still win over AI stupidity but the tactical challenge will definitely go up couple notches. Nowhere near as brutal as xcom ironman but still a nice way to liven civ up.
     
  12. tide15

    tide15 Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2013
    Messages:
    114
  13. MattZed

    MattZed Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    150
    An AI that is even remotely good enough to give Deity players a hard time without a handicap is virtually impossible with today's technology. It's hard enough to make a chess-playing robot. Civ 5 is vastly more complicated.

    Civ 5 Ironman? As-in, you lose a single unit and quit the game?
     
  14. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    4,673
    I agree, but the AI doesn't need to be that good. I'm ok with the AI getting some bonuses, if they would just fix the AI doing blatantly stupid things (and then perhaps allow for those bonuses to be scaled back a bit) that would come a long way.

    I know that teaching the AI to move its units properly is hard - very hard - in a dynamic landscape that civ is, but one must be able to learn it at least some basic principles like:
    • Don't embark your units when within a city range, particularly not when we're talking siege weapons
    • When attacking a city, don't move your siege and ranged units in IN FRONT of your melee units
    • When your air units are below 25 % health, make them heal instead of just mindlessly continuing their attack (btw. what happened to the supposed autocracy Kamikaze tenet that was going to let you destroy an air unit for major damage on target?)
    • When city states are at war, make them act defensively, instead of having them charge in and attack a major civ with *one* ranged unit and *one* melee unit
    I'm pretty sure we could come up with more examples, but these were just from the top of my head.
     
  15. simcoast

    simcoast Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    22
    Yeah, the biggest let down with Civ 5's AI is the combat..
    Even on Deity, there's almost no way you can lose in combat if you play semi-intelligently, even on more than one front.
    I'd pay for a DLC - maybe $10 - if 1 million people fund it, that's $10 million equating to thousands of hours of development purely on improvements to the AI - which would most definitely result in vast improvements to what they have currently.
    Bring in 3-4 professional algo's and half the work is done.
     

Share This Page