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How my mother stopped telling me to look for a boyfriend

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Ryika, May 19, 2017.

  1. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    Perhaps you're not aware that I'm CFCOT's resident cat lady?

    Cats do just fine, even though my little family decreased by one nearly two months ago when my older cat became extremely ill and had to be euthanized. Now it's just Maddy and me, and both of us are adjusting to her being an "only cat."
     
  2. NovaKart

    NovaKart شێری گەورە

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    I wasn't entirely serious, sometimes you take things very literally.
     
  3. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    I was being entirely serious, having grown up in a household where it was generally preferred that I be seen and not heard (unless practicing my music).
     
  4. Kozmos

    Kozmos Jew Detective

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    I could almost take that seriously if you know there wasn't an overflow of about 5 billion humans and synthetic biology/genetic engineering wasn't a thing.
     
  5. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

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    I'll make sure that if I decide to have children, they will boast about how great their parents are.
     
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  6. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    Me personally I have a completely different sentiment that most people on 1st page. I love children more than anything and would be willing to adopt if I couldn't have children. I am planning to have children, not now, but definitely in a few years. My partner is a little older than me (2 1/2 years) and is slowly creeping towards 30 so the pressure is on.

    I could see myself as a work-from-home dad, that would be one of my many dreamjobs actually. I want to experiment on my children, see them do stupid things, get into food fights, read them Hegel at night and show them Leslie Nielsen flicks at daytime. I want them to be completely different than I am, a new creation, that will never cease to amaze me, show me new ways to think, essentially enrich my life. I would love to cook for them every day, make a bow-and-arrow out of a hazelnut bush like my mom did with me, build things out of clay in our garden, get to know their ambitions, passions, which hopefully are both similiar and different to mine, and help them grab for the stars.

    Now I know that all sounds very sentimental and rose-tinted-glassey, but that's just how I work and there's nothing I can do about it. My girlfriend is mostly scared I think, :lol: Maybe it's because my parents were just phenomenal in every way that I have this one-sided view of parenthood, but I feel like even the tough, heartbreaking, frustrating things about parenthood will help shape me into a better human bean.

    Oh, and as for parents becoming boring after having children, I do not fear that at all. If anything I fear the opposite, that I would neglect my children too much being focussed on just "doing me", since that's essentially the only thing I know how to do well. If one has an unquenchable passion or thirst for knowledge, beauty, exploration, be it whatever, that doesn't simply seize upon having children. Or so I think :lol:

    This post is so full of bs that I can barely believe it's coming from you. I actually first considered it a joke, but then came the "in all seriousness" part.

    Can you, in short, explain to me:

    Why is it inherently good that mankind continues to live on? Clearly it is very bad for the planet. Clearly mankind is the biggest source of suffering for all species, not just us. There is even a possibility of us colonizing other planets and creating suffering there.

    Why is it inherently good for mankind to grow? Why is it better than stagnation or even a reduction of population? Especially considering how much "less developed" (hate that phrase) countries are growing rapidly in population, how can you justify having kids that might never see "untouched" nature because we needed all that space for us, how can you justify further polluting our water (heavy metals, microplastic), our groundwater, our air, essentially everything, because of the increased energy need?

    And last of all, the most dazzling statement you make, why do you think it is reproduction, out of all things, that gives legitimisation to ones existence. In your opinion, do all the asexual or impotent or mentally ******** or hereditary-disease-afflicted people just get no welfare at all? How can you justify that?
     
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  7. Hehehe

    Hehehe Emperor

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    It is interesting to see the anti-kids sentiment here. And please, make no mistake CFCrs, I respect your choices. All I am saying that I've always had a different view.

    I always knew that I want kids. To me it seems like the best legacy that I can leave. I love the idea of raising a batch of mini-mes. Sure, kids can be a hassle, but so what? I don't have kids yet, but I imagine they give meaning to life. To me it would be incredibly sad, to not have kids. Billions of years of evolution ending in me, all for what? So that I could become a childless old man? So that without kids I could enjoy empty hedonism?

    I respect people's choices, but to me it always seemed that having kids is the natural state of being. That kids add more to one's life than they take away. I've always wondered what it would be like to be childless? Wouldn't it get lonely? To grow old without kids, as your friends are starting up families? To know that you and your partner will die alone? Would that kind of existence feel hollow?
     
  8. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    It is a little ironic to connect "not having kids" with "empty hedonism" while at the same time you name exclusively selfish reasons for having kids (not that I have a problem with that, but if you analyze your rationale, it essentially boils down to egoism)

    I don't think a childless existence is hollow at all, in that case all my previous life would have had to feel hollow, which it did not and most likely does not for most people. A childless experience might feel hollow in comparison, when all of your friends and relatives have kids. But then again, if you're the kind of person who needs that kind of validation chances are you already felt hollow in the first place :~)

    (Note: I'm not saying that I have superior reasons for having children, of course mine are almost exclusively selfish, too. I just wanted to show you the double standard you're establishing)

    Well, it was the natural state of being for most of the history of humanity. But believing natural means good is nothing but a common fallacy.
     
  9. Hehehe

    Hehehe Emperor

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    Yes, I realize full well that my motivation is partly egoistical. In fact, if you want to get really philosophical then I suppose that everything humans do is egoistical to some degree (why would you help other people, if you didn't gain some kind of pleasure from doing so?). But I would argue that my motivation in this regard is also partly unselfish.
    I'm thinking of hollow in comparison to my own, hypothetical childless existence. Obviously children aren't the only thing that gives meaning to life, and I'm sure that life without kids can be great. I just believe that life would be better with kids.
    Well I guess we can agree to disagree on this regard.
    Ah, you're throwing the naturalistic fallacy in my face? From a purely biological perspective, what is the meaning of life if not to reproduce?
     
  10. tamyrlin

    tamyrlin Chieftain

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    More people evaluating whether they are willing to have kids or not is a good thing. People need to think whether they can give the time, care and space requirements the kids need and whether they would face financial or medical problems while raising the kids which could harm the experience for all involved.

    Way too many people jump into child rearing without giving it much thought and provide a damaging childhood for kids due to insufficient care , time ,resources or simply not being capable of affection and empathy .
     
  11. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    >Yes, I realize full well that my motivation is partly egoistical. In fact, if you want to get really philosophical then I suppose that everything humans do is egoistical to some degree (why would you help other people, if you didn't gain some kind of pleasure from doing so?). But I would argue that my motivation in this regard is also partly unselfish.

    I agree with your point here. I don't want to go full Max Stirner here, but I think it is hard to disprove that any action a human makes can be viewed as egoist.

    >I'm thinking of hollow in comparison to my own, hypothetical childless existence. Obviously children aren't the only thing that gives meaning to life, and I'm sure that life without kids can be great. I just believe that life would be better with kids.

    That I can agree with.

    >Ah, you're throwing the naturalistic fallacy in my face? From a purely biological perspective, what is the meaning of life if not to reproduce?

    I was not trying to be combative, sorry fren.

    There can never be inherent meaning. Meaning is always applied by someone to something. From a biological perspective there is no meaning. Yes, biologically speaking, most species try their best to preserve their own kind. This has nothing to do with the meaning of life.
     
  12. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

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    It is more than likely humans are the wild card in the evolutionary scheme of things.
     
  13. Hehehe

    Hehehe Emperor

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    My apologies if my reply come off as combative, I was simply trying to respond to some of the good points you made. As for the meaning of life, that is deep stuff. I would weigh in more thoroughly but I've been listening to Jordan Peterson and now my head is spinning, I can't decide if that guy is crazy or genius or somewhere in between.

    PS. Did you try to greentext me?
     
  14. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    I, too, have been listening to Peterson, first out off genuine, later out of morbid curiosity. I think he often ventures into topics he does not understand much and he tends to draw conclusions where there aren't any. But in general it is hard to deny that he is one of the most polarizing thinkers on YouTube/the Internet. Lately he's been pandering a little, did you notice that, too?

    And no, I didn't try to greentext, those days are (almost) over for me luckily. I don't like the quote system too much so I just use my "own" :~)
     
  15. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    I dunno man...we definitely do not need everyone to be having kids. There's billions of us, I don't think we're gonna go extinct any time soon. In certain places we might even want to incentivize people not to have children, as sad as that may be.
     
  16. Hehehe

    Hehehe Emperor

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    I'm not all that familiar with Peterson's thoughts, I only saw his interview on the Joe Rogan experience. I'm not familiar with any of his other work, so I cannot comment on that. And even the part the I did listen to, I'm not entirely sure what to make of it. There were bits which do ring true, bits that say something about human nature that I hadn't even thought of. But a lot of it also veered into very vague topics, so much so that it sounded like eloquently worded nonsense
     
  17. Honor

    Honor Immortal

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    Depens on how you define egoist. If it exclusively has to do with the individual self, for a lot of people the self extends far beyond the individual self, so they behave in ways that favor a group of individuals that are associated with themselves and feel rewarded by it. If you don't define egoist exclusively within the boundaries of the individual self, then you are just talking about determinism and there is no need for an adjective like egoist.

    I think egoist is a definition reserved for people with "an ego", i.e. people who do not feel connected to much at all besides themselves.
     
  18. mrt144

    mrt144 Deity

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    That's the funny thing though - it's kinda well documented that when times are relatively good humans don't spit out as many kids in aggregate. The natural impetus to procreate has environmental and social tethers.

    As for the existence feeling hollow, it's not. I mean, being able to bareback without any worry about children is anything but hollow, it's liberating. It's kind of like presupposing that a blind person has a hollow existence because they can't experience all the wondrous visual beauty of humanity - they don't know any different and still have 4 other senses that contribute to the human experience.

    Also, for many people who are child-free, we know loneliness well and are comfortable with it, maybe even prefer it.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  19. mrt144

    mrt144 Deity

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    In some cases, people can maximize their social utility by not having children. There's a weird misconception that by not choosing to reproduce, you suddenly stop being an uncle, a friend, a support structure for your friends and family with children.
     
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  20. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

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    Definitely. While I respect the decision of people who choose to have kids, there are already 7.4 billion of us, and the sum total of all land vertebrate biomass is about 95% humans and their domesticated animals (cows, especially). The last thing the world needs is more people living a high-consumption Western lifestyle.

    If we were an endangered species, then I might agree with Commodore. But as an overpopulated species, I think the optimal fertility rate is a European-style 1.4-1.7/woman (replacement is 2.05). Resulting shortages of young people will push their wages up (barring bad policy), and if the labor shortage is too severe, increasing immigration is always an option.
     

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