How often do you backstab your allies or breach treaties?

Chaos

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 26, 2001
Messages
25
LOL, IMO one of the funnest things to do in CIVIII is backstabbing your allies. Out of nowhere you attack and wipe someone out :D

In my most recent game I arranged the right of passage with a civ and used it to bring my men close to all key cities. Then, BOOM! and that civ is crippled for easy victory.

How often do you do it? Or do you have a funny backstabbing story to tell? :D
 

Bamspeedy

CheeseBob
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Messages
8,773
Location
Amish Country, Wisconsin, USA
I did this in one game, will TRY :D to never do it again, though. The only time I'll backstab them like this is if they are the only civ left, or it is late in the game that I don't care if the whole world is mad at me. In the game I did this I was playing on a huge pangea map with 16 civs. I betrayed my two nearest civs very early and took their capitals (both ended up respawning on the other side of the continent). So I ended up with half a continent all to myself, with the nearest civ something like 50 or 60 tiles away (about 2500 B.C., plenty of room for expansion :) ). Problem was, that all the other civs know about your betrayal and won't deal with you very well at all for the rest of the game. Everytime I try to get a ROP the response is something like "We know about what you did to India, and the answer is NO!".
 

Greadius

:yeah:
Joined
Dec 25, 2001
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Tallahassee, Florida, U.S.A.
I backstab at every possibility :satan:

But for a recent example...
On Marla's World Map, I was the Americans, and I had the Iriquios and the Aztecs in North America with me. My goal was to take over the entire western hemisphere, so I needed rid of them both.

So I fought the Iriqoius first, and drove them back to the north/west of Canada and Alaska. They had a few civilizations back there, and the Aztecs had all of the territory in the current U.S. west of the great lakes. So I asked the Aztecs for an alliance against the Iroquis and they agreed. My forward units watched them march their whole army into the rocky, cold terrain of the Iraqious. Meanwhile, I amassed my veteran offensive army near their border around Texas. I also built 4 galleons and filled them with my Knights, and moved them to the Gulf of Mexico. As soon as they had committed their forces all the way to the north I launched a sneak attack on their home bases. My Naval invasion was a massive success, I sacked their Capitol and their biggest city in the same turn. My forces moved across the plains and captured all the territory East of California within 5 turns.

By the time their army returned from Alaska, I had 2/3rds of their Empire under my control. Overextended, I sued for peace :D

Then I rebuilt and finished them off :satan:
 

Chaos

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 26, 2001
Messages
25
BTW, if a civ that you backstab hasn't made contact with another civ, I beleive your reputation is saved, because noone knows you did it. For example in my recent game I backstabbed the Americans and wiped them out, then I asked for right of passage from Joan of Arc and she agreed!

I gave her some gold/techs, because she was lagging behind other civs so now she is my greatest ally. I will need her alliance too, those japanese horsemen are too close for comfort, I simply KNOW there will be a war soon :D
 

Zachriel

Kaiser
Joined
Oct 7, 2001
Messages
2,294
Location
Jovian System
It is not a dishonor to declare war. It is only a dishonor to say one thing and do another. Keep your honor: Cancel your peace agreements before attacking.
 

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Vinc

Prince
Joined
Sep 22, 2001
Messages
316
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I had a game were I probably did something wrong with the english, although I don't know what. Everybody wouldn't trade me anything saying "we know what you did to the english". I never attacked the english, so I probably cut my road to them wich stopped a trade...:confused:
 

Alexnm

King
Joined
Jan 28, 2002
Messages
601
Location
Brasil
In my most recent game, I had the biggest empire among all and my late game was going well and nice, no wars, no problems.

Then I decided to attack the aztecs. They were on a continent south of my empire, and they were the least advanced civ. I infiltrated a spy and got to look their military. I said to myself: "Alea jacta est" :p and started to pile up large fleets near their northern shore. Meanwhile, I signed a mutual protection pact with the romans, who were on the opposite side of the aztecs. If the aztecs decided to send troops to attack me on my territory, then the romans would intervene, just in case... I feared that I could not sign a military alliance with the romans against the aztecs.

And during all these "warm up" turns, I kept giving the aztec some gold; they could never know what was about to break upon them!

Finally, I trespassed their borders. Montezuma came in a hurry: "your troops blah blah blah...". I said: "Now it is too late for these diplomatic bullsh!t, mister...". And then I took two aztec cities. I managed to sign a military alliance with the romans, and they took other two aztec cities. Then... I gave up! Yep. I saw Montezuma's sad look on the foreign advisor screen; I had a sudden regret. He had always been good to me. How could I treat him this way? Sorry, Monty.

We made peace. And how I wanted Civ3 to have a "please-make-peace-with-this-civ" diplomatic option, so I could tell the romans that Monty was a good pal. :king:
 

TrailblazingScot

I was kittenOFchaos
Joined
Jan 6, 2001
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Brighouse, England
In my first two games of civ3 I backstabbed and was sufficiently punished to never repeat it! There is usually enough fighting to do with people declaring war on you because someone paid them to do so or because you refused to give tribute...though I still often apply the time honoured "get off my land" approach to starting a war :)

I love the way 10-20 horsemen in a stack OFTEN appear near my weakest defended city...when that happens THEN I give tribute to end the war...not until I see that stack! ;)


A small question of my own...do many of you pay tribute often to the A.I? Personnally I find that very often I end up paying out to other civs (it depends if I think they are bluffing) as at the high difficulty levels the A.I can certainly spoil your day! (whilst in civ2 you could conceivably lose only a very small handful of units in a whole game).
 

Amask

Oogala Boogala
Joined
Feb 7, 2002
Messages
836
Location
Toronto
Around the Medieval ages I try to find out who "likes" me and who doesn't. Before that I try not to declare wars. Then I sign Right of Passage with everyone who doesn't like me, and sneak-attack them. At the same time, I make small gifts to other civs (like world map, 10-30 gold and some outdated techs) and trade with them to keep them happy with me. And no problems.
 

Chaos

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 26, 2001
Messages
25
A small question of my own...do many of you pay tribute often to the A.I?


No, no, no. I never do this! When AI demands something from me I take it as an insult and an attack on my pride. So whenever a civ demands something I always annihilate it to teach it a lesson!
 

Bamspeedy

CheeseBob
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Messages
8,773
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Amish Country, Wisconsin, USA
I very rarely pay tribute. If it's a civ far away, I almost never pay tribute, especially if I know I can get other civs to be my allies (make them do the fighting :D ). But if they are my neighbors, and I know I'm not set up very well defensively, then I will. It's not so bad if they just ask for a territory map and some gold, it's the techs they ask for that I'll never forgive them the rest of the game. I'll be getting revenge....someday.
 

Zachriel

Kaiser
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Oct 7, 2001
Messages
2,294
Location
Jovian System
Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
A small question of my own...do many of you pay tribute often to the A.I?

Of course. If some poor Civ comes along and wants to sell me his useless trinkets so he can afford to feed his people, then of course I'll try and help him out.
 

Dirk Aurel

Warlord
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
214
Location
Germany
Keep your honor: Cancel your peace agreements before attacking.

Hehe,yep,play the same way Zach.Usually call in,make some proposal they can´t except,and then declare war.This I do when I´m stronger and want their land.If we are about even,I tell them to move their troops off my land,their answer decides on our future of living together.

A small question of my own...do many of you pay tribute often to the A.I? Personnally I find that very often I end up paying out to other civs

Depends what you mean with paying Kitten.If paying means p/t then no.Usually I too find myself paying tribute till about 0AD. Giving them techs and maps,try to stay out of BC wars,in this time my empire is mostly weak,I concentrate on founding cities,building wonders, exploring new lands..Later it depends on the situation,if I know I´m gonna lose cities too fast I might give in,otherwise they can stick it somewhere.But if I don´t want war it usually COMES TO ME anyhow,the AI declares war on me because I´m too weak.Agree with Amask finding out who likes one and who doesn´t.Luxuries also motivate one to fight wars, not as much as having no oil or rubber though,will declare war on the weakest nation having it,no doubt.

The great citizens of Dirk Aurel don´t pay for resources. :D
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2001
Messages
7,475
How often do i backstab? What a question! Never! Never! Never!


or, wait a minute, aren`t you the one sitting on that salpeter next to my border?

or, the guy next to me that one day will stunt my growth???

:ripper: :rocket2: :rocket: :rocket3: [plasma] :ar15: :shottie: :die!: :ar15:


I do it all the time! The AI doesn`t play fair, especially the get annoyed with me for being successfull and then refuse to trade - so why should I be fair to them??????
I decided on early conquest whenever possible. All fair and nice - go ther, declare war, eliminate 'em!

So nobody`s gonna be my friend anyway........


On the other hand I sometimes can`t get ROP without ever having cheated(backstabbed anyone. They are just too afraid when they see all the graves in my neighbours countries.......
 

Dirk Aurel

Warlord
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
214
Location
Germany
Hehe Killer,lovely mess of smilies you have there :lol:

Just wondering,when I load the "Get More" on smilies,my screen fuks up,anyone know why?
 

Magnus

Diplocat
Joined
Apr 10, 2001
Messages
1,766
Location
Massachusetts, USA
I have only backstabbed by accident, usually its because of an MPP I had forgotten about... I have learned not to make them anymore, I will just bribe allies when the time comes for war.

Also I do not mind being stabbed by the AI - it leads to very interesting wars when you start on your heels!
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2001
Messages
7,475
Originally posted by Dirk Aurel
Hehe Killer,lovely mess of smilies you have there :lol:

Just wondering,when I load the "Get More" on smilies,my screen fuks up,anyone know why?

Same for me, but it works with right-click and "open in new window"....
 

BillChin

Prince
Joined
Jan 7, 2002
Messages
494
Backstabbing is okay, but to me it gets old if you do it every game. I wish the AI had some kind of human memory. I mean in a multiplayer environment, if you backstab someone once, they are never going to trust you again. The AI can't even seem to remember this for twenty turns much less twenty games. The AI also doesn't seem to weight different forms of betrayal. Some forms are a lot worse for human players than others.

Again, I wish for that adaptive AI. So the AI script that trades with a certain human or gives ROP and gets eliminated 20 turns later, gets weeded out. That way a human that uses the same dirty tricks every game will have a less and less receptive audience. This would similate multiplayer where if a certain player always backstabbed, it would no longer work after a few games as word gets around.

Even if the programmers could do stuff like this, the marketing committee might veto it, as a lot of players seem to enjoy this aspect of the game.
 

Black Waltz

Prince
Joined
Jan 29, 2002
Messages
569
I hate double crossing people, and I have to say that I've never done it purposly. However, the idea of nuking your only rival off the planet while having a signed ROP is pretty tempting... *g*
 
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