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How to approach this situation?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Jellly, Mar 6, 2011.

  1. Jellly

    Jellly Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    Here's the situation I have in my current game of Civilization IV. This game is on a continents (I think...) map, with perm alliances and complete kills on. The map size is Large, but I added in extra AI to make it more cramped and for more diplomacy and whatnot. The game difficulty is Prince, my first one.

    I chose Washington and my tactic early on was to expand as much as possible. This part worked out pretty well, and I controlled A LOT of territory early. The one thing I had forgotten was city maintenance cost...yeah :blush:

    So anyway around the medieval ages I was piss poor, and was slowly falling down the rankings (was 2nd under Mayan for the start). Anyway, I eventually just spammed workers and eventually I have managed to bring the economy back into a strong positoin (~100+ gold per turn now). I think I am slightly behind in technology, but believe I might be catching up quick.

    Politcal Situation is that I have Egypt to the South, Portugal to the West and China/Carthage to the North. Everyone else on the continent is Jewish apart from Portugal and Mayan who are Buddhist. My relations with everyone are good (Egyptians love me), except for the Buddhists. I am thinking about spamming units and just taking Portugal, but I am wary of Mayan who have a sizeable lead in score. Also, Portugal has more tech than me at the moment...

    Culturally, I am struggling to stop Egypt from pushing back my border, while in the North I am pushing back Chinese borders. To the west, it is pretty even between my culture and portugese.

    Any Suggestions?



     
  2. ahcos

    ahcos King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    919
    100% Researchslider would be my first suggestion, finish Rifling in 2 Turns, build Rifles and beat the out of egypt and china. Beside that, without a save almost impossible to say anything for sure here.
     
  3. stimpyhoek

    stimpyhoek Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    171
    Easy, just vassal egypt fast, she will love u again. Once u get war machine rolling the path just lays itself out. Once u get rifles turn off slider and use money for upgrades.:)
     
  4. MrSqueers

    MrSqueers Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Holliston
    What's the victory strategy? Space Race is impossible, most likely, because you've only got rifles in 1824, Domination and Conquest are going to be hard because everyone is on another continent, Culture is not going to work unless you've been spending your entire game reaching for it, Time is not going to work either because you're middle-of-the-road in score. Basically, that leaves Diplo. And that means HOLY WAR! I'm not much of a subtle diplomat, but the idea would be to unite under Jew Power, declare on William with your rifles to grab his land and some score, then bribe all of your Jewish friends to attack all of your non-Jewish non-friends. Make sure to keep the power more balanced, or one of your friends will get superpowerful and gorged on someone else's land and you'll lose to him.
     
  5. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,788
    Location:
    Łódź, PL
    Don't bother Egypt, they are nice to please and are not backstabbers, good relations will give you also trade bonus as their cities are on islnds too.

    Watch out your north - chinese + russia = classic backstabbers. Remember Hannibal is a warmonger too.

    My suggestion - go west!

    Willem rarely spams with units (and is annoyed - his mistake :p), than take Isabella (vassal of Hanni, be careful) = she always has nice shrines :)
    Beware ofPacal - quick techer and in the late game can support modern big armies
    After that you have no chance of losing - but observe north :) the best option is to start some kind of war between china, russia and Carthage - Mao and Stalin are easy to bribe, bribe Mao to declare war on Stalin.

    So....
    Willem is no more !!
     
  6. Jellly

    Jellly Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    OK here is an update. I started mass producing units in every city, making the use of my vast amount of cities. At the same time I decided to put culture on 0% and science to 50%. I researched enough to get canonns and grenadiers and then mass upgraded everything with my money. No one else would help in my war as they were all gangbanging the Vikings :S

    Anyway so as soon as I declared war Dutch started producing a ****load of units as well, and they had infrantry and tanks, and I just saw my first machine gunner D:

    So anyway the war is kind of a stalemate, my vast numbers having little effect at piering their barrier. I am trying to tech up to anti-tank and artillery and then renew the assault. After that, I should have enough cities to just gun science for the UN and try my luck there, if not for science victory. I have Carthage, Spain and Egypt willing to go into defensive pacts so after I exhile Dutch from Mainland and hopefully vassalise their remaining colony, I will create a mega defensive alliance to protect from the Mayans.

    Good plan? Or... nawt? It all depends if I can catch up in the tech race against the Dutch before their modern military annhiliates me.

    EDIT: I decided to take out the Dutch as they only had 5 mainland cities, and recon suggested they were not prepared for war. Also, they were Buddhist and Egyptians were good pals and could be vital for later against the Mayan superpower just on the other side of the Dutch.
     
  7. coanda

    coanda Emperor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,753
    From what I can see in screenshots and what you're saying in reports, it looks like the problem isn't your strategy; it's your execution. You (correctly) took advantage of distant starting locations to get some early expansion in, but don't seem to have capitalized on it to kill off one of the civs you weakened by preventing their expansion. You (correctly) identified that your economy was struggling and took steps to try and fix it, but what you have now is not a strong economy (300 beakers per turn in 1830 AD is actually pretty terrible). You (correctly) recognized the need for a push with rifles and cannons, but took too long preparing and (I suspect) didn't have the right ratio of rifles to cannons and/or didn't use them correctly.

    So again, it looks to me like your basic decision-making is sound, and it's just knowing how to follow through that's holding you back. That's a fairly broad topic. Good ways to start are reading through other completed games on these forums to see how other people handle things (start with the sample games - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=258697 ), watching some of TheMeInTeam's youtube let's play videos ( http://www.youtube.com/user/TheMelnTeam ), joining the current Noble's Club game ( http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=414212 I think), or visiting the War Academy articles ( http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy ).

    As a side note, that's a really unusual set of AIs. Only two of them who won't backstab at Pleased (about half the AIs in the game won't, so 8/10 that will is a fairly treacherous group) - and you got Genghis, Ragnar, and Monty!
     
  8. CaF

    CaF Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Germany
    I agree with coanda. Your problem is not the warfare.

    From the 2 screens you posted there are some technical errors that are more important to address. Once you get those out of your game it doesn't matter who you attack. You could probably fight Pacal and Stalin at the same time or something ridiculous like that. How you go on from here really is an irrelevant question.

    1: Its 1824 AD and you are building Universities? Too late, build units and kill something. Ragnar is the heathen and pretty small. I bet he is backwards as hell, too.
    2: Hermitage? If culture is a problem, build units and kill the source. Willem and Ram love culture but build few units. Easy kills in any era.
    3: Willem is annoyed. How did you manage that? I mean, he doesn't care about religion, in fact he is in free religion. No open borders with him and Ragnar is bad. You probably stopped trading with Ragnar due to a demand?
    4: Culture slider at 20%? Forget that. Import luxury goods or once again build units, kill something and capture them.
    5: Grocers are useless until very late in the game. Build Wealth instead. It's almost always better. Unless you have all the health resources, health problems and a low slider.
    6: Same with customs houses. Wealth is stronger.

    Besides all that the big Pacal is a real problem. But diplo situation is surprisingly good to take him out. I would steam roll Willem's core cities, vassal him, heal 3-4 turns, take peace treaties from Mao and Stalin and then see what we can do with Pacal. You have big and pretty underdevelopped cities(i mean 300 beakers per turn?), so massive whipping and drafting shouldn't hurt too much. If you have a cottage city, leave that one alone and abuse the others.

    And about the UN: Wouldn't do it. The UN is like that 3 days old ham out of the refrigerator. If you ever find yourself asking whether you should eat it, then you should throw it away. Same thing here: if you are unsure, forget it.
    Just in case you are interested in whats going to happen at the diplomatic victory vote: Izzy and Ram will vote for you due to religion diplo bonus (friendly), Ragnar will vote for Pacal due to religion and Hereditary Rule. Rest will most likely abstain. I assume Pacal is the highest pop and you build the UN. Being this far away from a diplo win with that many Jews and the highest contester being Buddhist is also rather questionable.

    Post a save please, preferably 1824, so we can see more. Might even try to play it out.
     
  9. Jellly

    Jellly Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
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    OK well I pushed ahead before I got your advice and....yeah it went to hell pretty quickly :S.

    Wilheim keeps getting more and more tech, so I am not able to catch up. As I was struggling on the West Side, Monty and Genghis declared war and caught me by surprise due to my weak navy and feeble defences. I lost Washington and Boston within 4 turns and decided to retire. I am now going to replay from earlier to see if it is possible to win with better decision making.

    I don't have time right this second, but later on today I will give it a shot, trying to incorporate your advice. I'll let you know how it goes ;)

    Oh and here is a save file from 1824, it'd be interesting to see if/how others turn around this game.


    http://www.mediafire.com/?4tzau6de6c906xw
     
  10. CaF

    CaF Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
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    Location:
    Germany
    I stole myself back into the game and was on the way to the Internet. Around 1920 I had to give up because Willem declared on me and bribed Mao in. I had only 3 towns on military, rest on wealth. Was running at 1500 Espionage per turn. Thats better than the 700 beakers I'd make with science. I'd guess that around 30 turns more and I would have gotten the tech lead back. With that I would have rolled the culture whore ram and then went for space.

    But the situation at 1824 is just horrible:
    -Military is nonexistent, some cities lack garrison.
    -Every city has every building but is lacking Universities. This is ridiculous. Every building beyond granary, forge, library and university needs to get weighed against building wealth. You can't just mindlessly spam all that other junk.
    -Cities are big but useless. We run Caste but have no specialists. Slavery does the trick here.
    -No strong bureaucracy city.
    -No open borders due to agreed stop trades, which you NEVER do. No exception. If you find your dude is the worst enemy of 5 AIs, you cancel the deals yourself.
    -No resource trades. I made trade deals worth 100 gold per turn in that save. One of the first things I did. You have the dye monopoly here, so turn it into cash.
    -Diplo penalties for refused demands. Unless its a monopoly tech or its Ghandi asking, you say yes. If Genghis asks, you always say yes.

    So I put every city to wealth, went 100% science up to Communism, replaced everything with Windmills, Watermills, Workshops. Chopped every tree in sight. All that forest in the ADs is hilarious. I steamrolled almost all cottages. You had no specialised cities, so I turned basically everything into hammers. Switched to Suffrage, Bureau and State Property. Then I built, whipped and bought jails and secret services everywhere and spammed spies into Willems northern city. Stole around 10 techs. Last one being Industrialism before I stopped. I had an army of around 40 Rifles, 10 infantry, 8 Machine guns and 6 Artillery before they attacked. Willem had Tanks, Bombers, Fighters, Paratroops etc. Mao had a bunch of garbage around Infantry and Cavs.

    Tech was something like: rifling, military tradition -> trades for lib and sci meth -> communism -> Espionage mode until Computers, with me self-teching parts of electricity to trade it.

    Got declared on by: Willem (around 1850), Genghis+Monty(vassal), Willem+Mao (around 1920). Never ever seen Willem in any position to declare on me and in this game it happened twice. There seriously is something wrong.

    The position is so bad that not getting Dan Quayle'd requires serious work.
     
  11. Jellly

    Jellly Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
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    Hahaha yeah I up preeeeety bad. Was my first game at this level and tbh had no clue what I was getting myself into. :S Thanks for the tips none the less, hopefully my next game will turn out different now. :p
     
  12. Riflin'Joe

    Riflin'Joe Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
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    329
    Location:
    New Zealand
    As someone said with another recent game posting. its better if you post an earlier game, e.g. 1AD.
    The later the game, the more basic mistakes have piled up to create a pretty awful position.
     

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