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HOW TO DIETY DOMINATION VICTORY pt 1

Discussion in 'Strategy Section' started by MichaelCIV5VP, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. MichaelCIV5VP

    MichaelCIV5VP Chieftain

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    How to win deity domination victory (no barbs) PART 1:

    Spelling and grammar suck FYI

    Tech opening: get the council tech, the granary tech, then calendar or trapping depending on resources. then the temple of artemis tech, then get either trapping or calendar, then get the hanging gardens tech., then writing then be-line to Parthenon. then get mining and quarries tech, then off to education.

    Opening: Try to move to hills with forest or jungle is possible. A ten turn monument is amazing. an 8 turn is rare especially is you don't have to move a tile to start, (tea or furs resource). Build order: Monument, council granary (purchase the discount on council and granary) worker/shrine (this is resource depandant) is you have truffles or furs go worker, if not go shrine then worker. the build a second worker (buy worker next when you have enough gold). Go tradition and get the court chapel as second policy task your artist specialist. then build the temple of artimes. This is a MUST. Get a settler, and then another worker. then another settler or hanging gardens THIS IS ALSO A MUST. GETTING HANGING GARDENS & TEMPLE OF ARTIMUS IS KEY. Pick up the other policies, assign specialists (you now have 3). build 4th settle then library. Assign 4th specialist to library. you have 2 scientists. At around turn 40-45 pick the pantheon of god king? or i cant rember the name, the one with +1 food production science and gold for every 2 pantheons founded. They should all be founded by turn 42, and getting the +4 IS HUGEEEEEEEEEE. Forget about religion, dont bother you wont get one. dont build the great libray. after hanging gardens and library, build a trader. build a granary in one of your other cities. ALL TRADE ROUTES ARE INTERAL. NO EXTERNAL TRADE ROUTES. all trade routes are to your capital city for food. you want a beefy capital with specialists everywhere. build a market in capital then build parthenon if you can but get the wonder if you get the tech then finish market. build a market in every city that has a trade route to your capital. the food from the trade bonus beefs up those cities when it completes. Market is important. always have science specialists. getting the orcale is a toss up i get it 50% of the time. try and get it, if you can get it by turn 105 your on the right track, education should finish once building it and get the tradition wonder, forget what it is called. by turn 120 the wonder should be complete. build trade routes immediately and sent food to the capital. when you get the fourth send production to your laggies city.. you dont want to send it to another player, you want the bonus food to your capital when it finishes. Assining the writer and music specialist when you unlock the policies, the state treasury policy gold specialist is a toss up. In the long run its better because the towns you get on roads is huge but limit to city growth is devastating, its scenario specific.. and i usually only assign it 25% of the time until my pop gets higher.. even then some times I don't set it until turn 160 ish as university writer and artist specialists are more important

    Settle cities strategically. DO not settle by rivers. settling by lakes is good (windmills are way better then hydro plants.) Try to settle in middle of the forest or jungle surrounded by them. Limits the deity steam roll, and ranged units cant hit your city. (that is huge). Build only 3 additional cities. Build order: Monument (purchase the discount at every city) then council granary, or granary first for the trade route. do not build shrines. there are useless until you want to build temples around turn 130 in you cities. walls as soon as you get construction. Purchases discount where you can. trade everything expect to keep happiness and get gold. you want more than 50+ gold per tun by turn 80. DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT trade embassies with neighbors until you feel like you can manage a deity steam roll. I can not emphasize enough placing defensible cities surrounded by forests. not getting baths/watermill is and OKAY trade off for defense. Unless you have tea, as early game production is insane and can hold not so defensible cities.

    All great people do not get popped for yeilds. Great works and tile improvements are essential for early game.

    Part 2 coming later. if you have early game questions you can ask me. and i will try to answer later.
     
  2. andersw

    andersw King

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    "At around turn 40-45 pick the pantheon of god king? or i cant rember the name, the one with +1 food production science and gold for every 2 pantheons founded."
    You mean "god of all creation" ?
    What if someone else took that already?
    What if I fail any of the "KEY" wonders?
    Does it mean restart in all those scenarios or is there a fall back plan of sorts?
    I can see the no barb setting, any other things that this is for, like specific game speed/civilizationi/map?
    "Build only 3 additional cities."
    How on earth do you keep army supply up for a domination game?
    Did you mistype and mean culture/science victory?
     
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  3. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    This only works if you can get a very good start. I don't see how you consistently take a pantheon on turn 45 when you build a shrine so late. You need 50 faith to get a pantheon, so the 3 faith per turn from Majesty takes 17 turns. You would need to unlock your second policy on turn 28 to reach your pantheon on turn 45. If you finish monument on turn 8, you get your first social policy on turn 22.
     
  4. MichaelCIV5VP

    MichaelCIV5VP Chieftain

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    The second policy take the court chapel which is the +3 faith and work the artist slot. you get the shrine somewhere after turn 27. with both its 5 faith per turn which is 10 turns total. but you get the shrine before the court chapel, so once you finish the second policy its only 6-7 turns. I actually delay my shrine a bit some times because i actually get the pantheon on turn 40 a lot and i only end up getting +3 yields which isnt bad, but waiting the 2-3 turns for the extra plus 1 is better in the long run
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  5. MichaelCIV5VP

    MichaelCIV5VP Chieftain

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    how to win deity domination victory (no barbs) PART 2: How to deal with a warmonger as a neighbor while booming.

    For the warmonger neighbor.. to prevent them form steam rolling you in the beginning means being proactive and declaring war on them right away basically and staying at war until they threaten you.

    ie. you find their capital declare war, steal their worker. send the worker to your capital. with your scout pillage tiles then go away heal, then pillage tiles some more. Try to keep their settler in the city as long as possible by keeping your scout around. Keep pillaging tiles in their second and third cities, with the scout movement bonus try to steal more workers. Pillaging farms is the most important tiles to pillage (more than the luxury). you want to keep their cities population as low as possible for as long as you can. this takes practice to do it well without losing your scout. so for example you declare war on turn 20, but turn 50 they will usually except peace. DO not peace out, stay at war until their units approach your cities, then sure for peace around turn 60-70, but delaying peace as long as possible is the best option if it takes them awhile to get you. The bonus to declaring war on them right away is they rate they build settlers decreases in favor of units, so there expansion is nerfed as well, which makes the deity steam roll of units less in future wars, especially the second war. I Find wars around 110-130 to be when they are at their strongest relative to my weakness in terms on unit spam but then castles with fealty after 130 makes it easy to defend and am pretty much safe for the rest of the game. the 10 turns of peace usually means at turn 80 you may need to fight.. but they usually will declare war on someone else for 25 turns, so they'll look for a rematch at turn 110-120 usually. by then you have walls in your cities, you can buy archers and upgrade them to Comp bowmen and can hold the push with defensible cites and build castles. If you have 2 neighbours, do the same thing, but harass the neighbour that has less other neighbors surrounding them. Ie i have Mongolia and Greece as my neighbors. Greece has only me as a direct neighbor while Mongolia has India, japan and me as theirs. Greece will always be declaring war on you as they are your only neighbor. so it makes sense to hit them. sure for peace for mongolia at around turn 60 or as long as you can. but because they have 2 neighbors you can get lucky because for sure they will declare war on India or japan before declaring war on you and possible declare war on the other neighbor before coming back to you, declaring war around 150-160.

    To sum. Declare war on all neighbors that are war mongers immediately once meeting them. harass the neighbor with less neighbors. stay at war as long as possible until they threaten you. peace out once the reach your cities. build walls purchase archers upgrade to CB. and you'll be okay, assuming you combat well and you founded good defensible cities.

    By turn 120 you need to be making +100 gold per tun. sell all horses and iron for gold. you don;t need skirmishers... they are not necessary. pike man as meat shields for crossbows are way better in areas with forest as your crossbows can shoot through your city to hit their units, while forest prevent their ranged units hitting your pike man. they can heal. if they die, kill the unit that killed them with the city and ranged units buy another pikeman as meat shield. and replace. having 1-2 in reserve to take positions of lost pike man is good then purchase a new one to replace your units. rinse repeat until they will accept peace.. Its imperative to keep building buildings. Wasting time on building units sets you further behind other civs who keep bomming. Booming while at war is critical to getting medival wonders. medival wonders are the strongest wonders in the game and getting 3 of them is critical. getting chicken itza is imperative because you can be in a never ending golden age after 270ish for the rest of the game when done right. and then getting Sistine chapel by turn 183 and porcelain tower b4 turn 197 is key.
     
  6. MichaelCIV5VP

    MichaelCIV5VP Chieftain

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    Yes god of all creation sorry. If some1 took it, its very rare, but yes that is the one thing will cause me to re start the game, unless you have furs or something can can get culture from camps, that pantheon is almost more op then god of all creation is certain situations, and there are other specific situations where remaining pantheons are available that will keep me from restarting, but those are rare but very interesting fun games or is I have mnt Kilimanjaro or some other good natural wonder like great barrier reef ill stick with it

    You can't fail at getting the wonders. if done right you will get them all the time. just takes practice. failing to get key wonders is manageable, but it helps with specialists. it just delays when you can start pushing rather than at turn 300-330, you start at turn 350-360.. which sucks because then the AI has bombers then and makes it harder to get all of the AI's b4 one of them gets to a science victory

    Yes only 3 addition cities its the best trade off in terms of happieness, and science and culture. the extra7% for the 5th and 6th city is more than the relative science/culture the city produces, so your time to get policies and techs increases. which prevents you form getting wonders. don't worry about supply cap. the only time you can reasonably push is by the time you get the freedom policy of extra supply from population then you have 50 untis available and conquring cities adds extra 10+ for each one. You actually don't need that many units. Learning to hold in diety with less than 6 units took a lot of practice and skill, but once you learn how you can boom, save gold maintenance build wonders. and you actually be the tech leader pretty much from turn 140 on. So you dont need high supply cap until you want to start taking cities.. then you need 20-30+ units. but holding until then, you don't need that many units. Also 4 total cities keep your happines up, which increases total culture output from that fealty policy. +40 happiness is +40 culture, when you have only 200 base, thats an increase of 20% total culture... very powerful. 4 tight well defended cities with internal trade routes=high pop cities=lots of specialits=lots of great people=big boom=tech lead=wonder production=super strong late game army push

    Best civ is poland. hands down. you can get the hanging gardens at turn 60. and the earlier science specialist, I once got the parthenon at turn 84, and the tradition finisher at turn 110 with the oracle build when I was in the medival age at turn 96. The 1000 science and culture at that time... whoa insane. Polans hands down best civ in the game. Then Indonesia... the extra happiness and gold from selling resources to AIs is insane plus, after building the hanging gardens +20% in culture from we love the kind day is also insane. 3rd best civ is theordora. Getting a religion of chioce on diety is amazing. Msques+churches+mastery is OP on its own, the celelstial throne and either two reformations of knowledge through devoltion or purchaing any great person in insudtrial era is insane. + with theodora you can get a late game region, so you actively spread other religions in your first empire faith buying all their buildings, then when you have got 4-5 of them in each city.. then you found yours... its insane. depending on what buildings you already have from other religions you can pick up the war pantheon of 50% ranged combat strength and faith from killing units instead of either mosques or churches (mastery is a must). enhancer belief is the +2 great people points and +15% in golden ages (after 280 in the forever golden age.. that is huge). Greece is good. I'd get the roman forum over the hanging gardens in that situation.

    No I did not. Domination on deity is the hardest victory type. science and culture victory is actually pretty easy with the strat. fighting an AI that can produce 30 units per turn (with 15 cities) is tough and fun.. and rewarding once you figure it out :).

    Pangaea is good. Not really map specific, in fact Pangaea is the hardest, especially if you spawn in the middle and have 5 direct neighbors.. whoa that's a tough one, trying to push while at war with all 5 of them is frustrating and why I wrote about paratroopers needing a Nerf. Though i like continent plus, little easier but.. gives it a little extra strategic element combing naval air and army.. I just find it more fun warring on water/amphibian assaults than Waring just on land.
     
  7. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Without a very lucky start (probably ruins), you won't claim your 2nd social policy so early, nor will you consistently finish a shrine by turn 27 if its the 5th thing in your build order.

    So in the early game you just don't build any military units at all, which is why you turned of barbarians. Do you just concede if the Aztec or Songhai are nearby? Montezuma will declare war on turn 50.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  8. MichaelCIV5VP

    MichaelCIV5VP Chieftain

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    nope if you have a warmonger neighbor you declare war on them right away when you meet them. ready my above post on how to deal with a warmonger. you peace out with them on turn 50-60 then your in the clear till about 100 usually. tho sometimes they get ideas and declare war on you again at turn 80 but then with the gold per turn you can with 3 archers and hold w/ spearman meat shield with cities that are defensively placed. Also no ancient ruins. i meant to say that. its helps the AI way more. on deity your lucky if you get 3.
     
  9. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Is this standard speed? I assume it is because the wonder timing is about right for standard.

    Going by your claims of a turn 8 monument and this build order, you get your first social policy on turn 22. To get a turn 40 pantheon, you need your next social policy and shrine build on turn 30. So your second social policy needs to require only 8 turns to unlock, with palace + monument + 3 culture from tradition you have only 6 culture per turn. What am I missing? It can't be done.

    Council or granary before shrine is a bad move 99% of the time. God of all Creation is worth 3 food and 3 science per turn, likely more food than the granary and certainly more science than the council. You also get the option to take the production policy earlier to help build those wonders.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  10. LifeOfBrian

    LifeOfBrian Warlord

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    I don't think this is a viable strategy. Shrines should at the latest be the 3rd thing you build (after monument and perhaps a warrior). Also "no barbs" setting means you're tilting the game heavily in favour of non-authority civs. Early stealing workers from the AI is exploitative.

    I don't know, I'm skeptical, I'd like to see a video of such a strategy (at least in the early game) with a non-perfect start.
     
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  11. MichaelCIV5VP

    MichaelCIV5VP Chieftain

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    I'm a total newb when it comes to tech. I'd be happy to do a video, but I need to know who to do it. I have no idea where to begin. If anyone could give me step by step instructions on how to do as if you were speaking to someone how is 5 years old (i am not) I'd be happy to show your how to do this in a video, but I'm not going to spend my time on the net trying to figure out how to do it. Fair?
     
  12. MichaelCIV5VP

    MichaelCIV5VP Chieftain

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    Yes on standard speed. You actually want your pantheon at turn 43. but some times if you have a too good of a production start the shrine gets in at turn 25 and bungles everything (REMEMBER PURCHASE THE DISCOUNT of council and granary, for the granary you may have to switch to produce shrine or worker for 2 turns then back to granary to get enough gold to get the production discount). This is why a granary is important before the shrine. Plus 1 food PLUS 15% return on pop growth. With tradition your early game culture is based off of population in your capital, so boosting pop in the capital=more culture=faster polices=faster pantheon=more cuture soon due to artist slot. ON DEITY it makes not sense to get a "wide pantheon" because you wont get a religion. so getting a pantheon that boosts your capital only is good, because around turn 130 usually your capital looses it to religious pressure, while your other cities loose it much faster. Listen I get the shrine thing, i used to do it all the time, but seriously my game changed drastically going monument council then granary. Council first to get the extra+5 from pop growth, stacks well getting it b4 traditon to get an extra 10+ and the extra science per turn is nice. granary for city growth IS HUGE. having a 12 pop captial city by turn 80 is amazing. you get specialtis slots filled AND HIGH PRODUCTION. getting the pantheon later around 42-43 is good because the +4 foods and science is what makes its a good strat.

    Production policy is not good before court chapel. 1) the curt chapel gets you the faster pantheon, and with the artist slot, the +3 addition culture gets you the production policy just around the time you start building the temple of Artemis anyway. Plus the faster culure gets your science policy faster, getting a science specialts and always you get to build the hanging gardens 12 turns faster. the production is no good is you don't have the policies to build the wonder in the first place. you can start building the hanging gardens b4 turn 70 going court chapel first. Also faster polices is everything. you want to be hitting fealty before turn 120. Culture and high pop growth is everything. With Poland you can hit fealty at turn 98 (which is why Poland is the best civ in the game)
     
  13. MichaelCIV5VP

    MichaelCIV5VP Chieftain

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    going warrior on no barbs makes 0 sense at all. waste of production to early in the game. your snowball gets set back way to much. actually with no barbs, the AI wars you MUCH SOONER with more vigour. they get more cities faster and there unit production is much faster making there steam roll way more deadly, which on deity is worse than having barbarians. early wars can cripple you relative to other civs than can boom rather than making units. read my above post why early shrines are not good. The secodn tradtion policy give you +3 faith, remember with a srhine thats 5 faith per turn, so 10 turns for a pantheon. So getting a later pantheon to boost your god of all creating to +4 all yields is better. so getting it on turn 43 is what you want so that means getting a shrine on turn 30 or a bit sooner, then getting the policy turn 35-36 gets you the faith for a turn 43 pantheon, because by then 85% of the time all cive have their pantheon so your bieng the 8th gets you the plus 4 yeilds. Late shrine = Better period end of story. the pop growth from granary give you more culture, production and possible gold depeneing on tiles, and science is king on diety, so councils are a must. the +10 science when unlocking tradition with a council is not be be underestimated. with the +1 science you can be +30-40 total science ahead from an early council (+ 5 from pop growth (boosted by granary) & plus 1 per turn) which in the early game puts you 4-6 turns ahead in tech research than you would be without it which allows your to get wonders earlier.
     
  14. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    What turn you take a pantheon never affects its yields. You can take God of All Creation on turn 0, you will still get 4 of each yield once 8 pantheons have been taken.
    You answered a lot that I'm not asking about. I'm very aware what tradition's social policies do. Can you explain how you get 3 social policies by turn 30 with tradition (with an 8 turn monument), to show that your turn 40 pantheon claim is true? I think its actually impossible. You need like 9 culture per turn, I can consistently get 5 and sometimes get 6. Maybe a couple of extra points from meeting CS, that still leaves me way short of this value.
     
  15. MichaelCIV5VP

    MichaelCIV5VP Chieftain

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    No you get the second policy the one with the artist slot around turn 30-36 time depending on how much pop u have and monument time, if you get and early second policy, delay the shrine even more so you get the pantheon at turn 42-43. the third policy comes in around turn 42-50, when you get the engineering slot, right around the time you build temple of Artemis, so the extra production is moot basically until then, go for culture first then production policy. then after temple of Artemis you can build your settlers.

    For god of all creation, and i have checked you get +1 yeild for every 2 panteons founded AT the time you select it, so if theres 5, your pantheon the 6th makes it bonus +3 yeilds. if theres 4, your pantheon, the fitth means yu only get +2 yields. its locked in, when other pantheons get founded, it does not buff yours. Ive checked. got to the city view and hove your mouse over the science thing it will be locked in at ex. +2 from religion. when all 8 are founded, hover your mouse over the science thing and it will still say +2, thats why waiting until 7 pantheons are founded, yours then being the 8th gives you +4 yields. and here's the thing, earlier shrine means you only get your pantheon on in mid to late 30's anyway, just waiting 5-8 turns more turns is worth it for the higher yields, and the bonus from councils and early granary makes up for it.

    **Even if you don't get god of all creation anyway, the earlier council and granary is still better then an earlier pantheon. because the shrine produces 2 faith, so 8-10 turns of waiting to build the shrine is only 16-20 faith. that's 6-7 turn delay in getting the pantheon only, because the second policy is 3 faith. Usually 4 pantheons are already founded, and the best ones are already gone like culture form camps, +1 science golden age point one, the +gold and golden points when person is born and I cant remember the others, so you only get a sub par one, and on deity you don't get a religion unless your Theodora, so your "good" wide pantheons are gone by turn 80-90 anyway as the AI spreads their religion and pantheon, your capital usually holds out until turn 130, so its not that important. Seriously, waiting 6-8 turns for a pantheon is just one of those trades you have to do on deity.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  16. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Post a screenshot of the turn 30 second social policy please, or offer your own calculations and show what I forgot. I've offered math to show why it can't be done.
    Its not, or at least it never was before and should be reported as a bug.
    There are videos and photojournals on the forum that do it. It is objectively possible and claiming otherwise just makes you look stubborn.


    I'm not against the council/granary rush. Its a clever strategy that is certainly useful, but it isn't a clearly best option IMO, and exaggerating your numbers makes it less credible, not more. Furthermore, I don't see how Temple of Artemis is essential enough to use all caps, or how transitioning into Fealty and a domination victory are the clearly optimal choices. This guide does feature a creative, alternative way to begin the game but its far from the only option on Deity.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  17. MichaelCIV5VP

    MichaelCIV5VP Chieftain

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    The title of the thread is "How to deity domination victory"... so the strategy is for a deity domination victory... "how transitioning into Fealty and a domination victory are the clearly optimal choices".. if your trying to get a domination victory.. ummm.. the optimal choice is to do the thing that gets you that victory LOL. maybe going other victory types is you do other things.. this is not a "How to play on deity" this is how to play on deity can conquer the map by turn 400 strategy. this is not how to WIN on deity, that's easy turtle, rationalism space victory turn 380, boom, this is a how to win by WAR... thats different. And yes temple of Artemis is so key. the 10% food means your cities are 3-4 more pop than they should be.. which is critical late game, & early game as well.

    And yes getting a religion is possible on deity, but not guarantied, and usually fails 90% of the time, unless you do the america strat with Stonehenge is when you can 100% guarantee it. But other wise the time building shrines in 2nd 3rd and fourths cities is better spent building councils then granaries, no point in accumulating faith as there is no pay off. build shrines only when you want temples after building the temple national wonder around 130 period. (FOR THIS STRATEGY).

    As for the 30-36 second policy time, I wasn't exactly sure at which turn i get it which is why I left a wide berth. being a stickler for precision, (I grant it this is a game of precision) when i was giving an overview, i'm not going to take notes in game and say this is when this. anyway I'm posting part 3 soon.
     
  18. randomnub

    randomnub Prince

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    I don't see any mention of ancient ruins so they're probably on by default and make the build order less predictable?

    Yawn :sleep:
     
  19. MichaelCIV5VP

    MichaelCIV5VP Chieftain

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    you can do it faster than 400?
     
  20. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I can do it on 90% of starts using any civ.

    As for precision of numbers, its one thing to remember to not recall the turn something happened on. Its another to tell others they are wrong and it can be done earlier, when you cannot back up your own claims. 30-36 isn't a wide berth that is possible on all starts. If your start gets a 10 turn monument, or cannot grow to 4 population before claiming tradition, you will be way slower than this. Closer to turn 40 for the second policy.
    I've done it several times in under 300. Your suggestions don't focus on domination very much, instead you focus on growth, which isn't really necessary to win wars. In another thread you mention happiness problems, the best response is probably to pursue less food and more of other things.

    I'm not sure what the best civ for Domination is, but I'm sure it isn't Poland. I'd vote for Mongolia on land heavy maps, on continents it might be England. I would much rather have ship of the line than the hanging gardens + 2 social policies + winged hussars.
     
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