How To Enforce a Pledge To Protect?

[Cicerosaurus]

Exactly how are you supposed to honour this pledge?

If I pledge to protect , say, Jerusalem, and a neighbour DOWs them I guess I would become aware quickly enough of it. What is the appropriate response- a DOW on the aggressor?

And what if an AI demands a tribute from them- how do I even know until after the event? And how am I supposed to respond to honour the pledge.

 

[Moriarte]

You can send 2-3 units to the crime scene and block the aggressor from capturing Jerusalem by putting sticks in his wheels. Or, just let them capture it, DoW and liberate it from aggressive civ. Sometimes CS will give you quest to kill few units of the aggressor. In return you will get massive influence boost.

 

[Cicerosaurus]

That will work with a war, but what about when they just demand tribute? If the first I find out about it is when Nebby (or someone) says they have bullied Jerusalem and they had to because of....., the first I realise is the message and when I look at the CS my influence has already waned.

It seems that even a DOW wouldn't restore that influence.

 

[Browd]

That will work with a war, but what about when they just demand tribute? If the first I find out about it is when Nebby (or someone) says they have bullied Jerusalem and they had to because of....., the first I realise is the message and when I look at the CS my influence has already waned.

It seems that even a DOW wouldn't restore that influence.

Correct, it will not. When you pledge to protect, all you've done is increase your CS influence resting point by 10 points. Nothing more. If your influence is above the resting point, your influence degrades every turn in the ordinary way - until you reach the influence resting point, when normal turn-by-turn influence degradation ceases.

Pledge is not a defense pact or anything similar to a defense pact. You are not required to denounce or DOW a bully or send troops to defend the CS, or gift them troops, or anything like that. But, if you fail to honor your pledge, your pledge is cancelled -- influence resting point returns to its old level, you immediately lose influence (beyond the normal turn-by-turn influence degradation) and you cannot pledge again for 10 turns.

So, what are you required to do to honor your pledge?

Everything revolves around what you do when the AI approaches you to admit that they have attacked or bullied one of your CS protectees. You will have two possible responses: (1) "You will pay for this" or (2) "this won't affect our relationship" (or words to that effect).

If you select response (2), you have shown your true colors, your pledge is cancelled, influence is lost, and can't pledge again for 10 turns.

If you select the former response, your influence resting point with the CS will remain unchanged (normal turn-by-turn influence degradation continues, but resting point remains unchanged), but you will get a negative diplo modifier with the aggressor civ (stated something like "you failed to look the other way when they abused CSs under your protection"). It is not the worst modifier, but it can add up with a repeat offender.

That's all there is to it. If you want to denounce or DOW a bully, go for it, but your CS protectee doesn't expect that, and you get no more influence by doing so.

 

[Cicerosaurus]

Thanks Browd. A very clear answer- and I found out that there is a use for "You will pay for this in time."

 

[Zezima]

If you select the former response, your influence resting point with the CS will remain unchanged (normal turn-by-turn influence degradation continues, but resting point remains unchanged), but you will get a negative diplo modifier with the aggressor civ

I've always found this to be a little wonky. I understand it's in place to give the options a tradeoff, but if I was a civ I would be upset with another civ that refused to follow through with their CS pledge, not satisfied with them. It's essentially the CS version of breaking a DoF, and we all know what happens to your reputation when you do that.

I think it would be nice if the effect of your decision varied based on the personality of the civ. Taking the side of the CS against Bismark would of course result in his disgruntled grumpy face, while taking the side of the CS against Gandhi or Rammy wouldn't result in such a negative modifier, or possibly result in a positive one.

One might argue that this would make the "You will pay" option pointless in this scenario, but we already have plenty of pointless diplo options (Stop spying on me, Don't settle new cities near me).

 

[Browd]

The negative diplo modifier is modest, but does effectively vary by AI personality, through stacking negative modifiers.

Gandhi might only attack a CS once, and then behave nicely => one minor diplo negative that fades over time.

Germany (or the Huns or Mongols) might bully a CS every turn, causing the negative modifiers to swiftly move into deep red territory, potentially seriously harming your relations.

 

[Zezima]

The negative diplo modifier is modest, but does effectively vary by AI personality, through stacking negative modifiers.

Gandhi might only attack a CS once, and then behave nicely => one minor diplo negative that fades over time.

Germany (or the Huns or Mongols) might bully a CS every turn, causing the negative modifiers to swiftly move into deep red territory, potentially seriously harming your relations.

Great point, that does pretty much simulate the suggestion I made. Now that you mention it, I do find myself constantly telling leaders like Bismark and Catherine "you will pay" over and over for bullying CSes. Not so much with other, less aggressive civs.

 

[joncnunn]

Exactly how are you supposed to honour this pledge?

If I pledge to protect , say, Jerusalem, and a neighbour DOWs them I guess I would become aware quickly enough of it. What is the appropriate response- a DOW on the aggressor?

And what if an AI demands a tribute from them- how do I even know until after the event? And how am I supposed to respond to honour the pledge.

Tell them "You will pay for this" whenever that AI contacts you informing your of this; but nothing else.
You'll see some red text when you do that; but the AI will still give you full trade value. (One AI bothered me 3 turns in a row about this; and after words still paid me 240 gold for a luxury)
Your not expected to do anything meaningful.

There is a separate "seeking justice" city quest to denounce an AI; but its open to all civs. Only a good idea to do this if that AI is already disliked by your favorite trade partners.

 

[Novalia]

You should always tell them they will pay. No matter who they are. If at a later time they attack or denounce you it will not be for that reason but for others. I protect every CS every game always saying "you will pay". In most cases I look at a civ attacking me as opportunity at acquiring some puppets... Maybe a cap. If you're not prepared for a fight trade some gold to another civ to start a war with the guy outside your borders to buy some time to prepare.