How to have a tax rate near 0% and buy goods cheaply in Europe

[BobTheBull]

Yeah, I haven't played AoD2 yet, but I just dl'd 1.06 and will start it up soon. But the cost increases make sense, and if Dale hadn't done them I would have changed them myself.

Historically I think colonial shipping was mainly shipping to Europe the new world things which were in high demand (thus, high profit) and the return trips were filled mainly with new settlers and only such goods as could not be produced or obtained at home. Realistically, tools, ore and guns are heavy cargos which would soon overload a ship and the cost of shipping made it unfeasible to use them for trade, especially when other goods were in much more demand and lighter to ship.

 

[Wheldrake]

I would expect ships outbound from Europe would have carried colonists, foodstuffs, tools, guns & ammo, furniture and other finished goods (in about that order).

I find AoD2 highly chalenging. Sadly, there seems to be a bug in the v1.06 build, so I advise using the v1.05 build. Unless this is just a strange quirk in my own installation.

YMMV, --- Wheldrake

 

[HermannLombard]

Another thing about AoD II is that the price of horses is tripled so you don't have the secondary exploit of selling horses for huge profits (or guns...both are somewhat profitable but not very profitable). OTOH Dale is now making it more attractive to produce horses. Here are the yield changes from the current list:


* Yield changes:
* European horses tripled in price.
* European tools tripled in price.
* European muskets very expensive (but still able to profit from natives early in game).
* Added +1 horse to stables, +2 horse to ranch, upped costs

 

[BobTheBull]

Yes, Wheldrake that's about right. But they would probably have carried only enough food for the passengers during the voyage and only enough tools, guns, etc. for the new colonists to use when they arrived. Any cargo room left over would have been used for European goods which would be most profitable. That changed over time, with guns being very profitable early on, while later in the period European clothing, cloth and other goods were more profitable because of the demand, brought about in part by the prosperity that allowed colonists to buy them. I doubt that lumber, ore or other raw resources were ever shipped in any great quantity, other than gold, silver and gems.

You mentioned a bug, but didn't say what it is. I just finished playing about 70 turns with 1.06 and haven't noticed anything. If you give us some specifics we can probably help.

And if you think Dale's prices are too high, you can knock them down in xml.

 

[Thorn]

I don't care if you do it or not but:
re-rolling the dice because you don't like the outcome IS cheating

 

[HermannLombard]

I don't care if you do it or not but:
re-rolling the dice because you don't like the outcome IS cheating

You're fully entitled to your own opinion about how you play your own game, and I wouldn't use this exploit...even if it didn't involve incredible tedium.

However, it's a solitaire game, so just who is being cheated? If that's what gives him pleasure in the game, solo, it's up to him.

 

[Thorn]

You're fully entitled to your own opinion about how you play your own game, and I wouldn't use this exploit...even if it didn't involve incredible tedium.

However, it's a solitaire game, so just who is being cheated? If that's what gives him pleasure in the game, solo, it's up to him.

I totally agree that if that's they way he wants to play he should. But it is cheating. In this case the player is cheating himself of the proper gameplaying experience. It's perfectly okay to do it but it is still cheating. When I first bought Civ 4 I wanted to see what a nuke explosion looked like. So I went into the worldbuilder and gave myself a nuke and blew up a city. It was fun and nobody got hurt (except the city!). But it was cheating.

 

[dalgo]

I agree with HermannLombard, it's up to the person playing the game to choose the method he enjoys most. To call that cheating is to impose your standards on someone else.

 

[Thorn]

Okay, this is getting way off topic so this is my final reply as far as cheating is concerned. You're merging two separate issues.

Issue 1) I agree with HermannLombard, it's up to the person playing the game to choose the method he enjoys most.
100% correct. I also agree with HermannLombard (and you) on this.

Issue 2) To call that cheating is to impose your standards on someone else.
No. To call that cheating is to use a word that defines what he is doing. In order to impose my standards on him I would have to say, "Don't do that! It's wrong!" However, I think it's perfectly okay to play that way. No harm. But the action itself is cheating by the very definition.
cheat: To violate rules deliberately, as in a game

 

[dalgo]

Issue 2) To call that cheating is to impose your standards on someone else.
No. To call that cheating is to use a word that defines what he is doing. In order to impose my standards on him I would have to say, "Don't do that! It's wrong!" However, I think it's perfectly okay to play that way. No harm. But the action itself is cheating by the very definition.
cheat: To violate rules deliberately, as in a game

I agree with what you say when it applies to Multiplayer, Succession games, GOTM etc etc where a group of players have decided on a set of rules (I am referring to Civ here but the same would apply to Col). If you decide to play such a game you agree to play by those rules, and breaking them would indeed be cheating.

However, if you are playing a solo game then in effect you are setting your own rules and they will differ from player to player. Neither the manual nor the civilopedia provides a list of rules to follow, and nor should they. So if someone chooses to use a gameplay method that is different to mine, I would not call it cheating just because I do not do it myself.

 

[prolefeed]

"In this case the player is cheating himself of the proper gameplaying experience."

So, by your standards is it cheating yourself of a "proper gameplaying experience" to play AoD2? Because that, too, is changing the rules of the game.

You get very different games if you play "roll the dice" vs. "save good results, restart bad results". It's almost like adding an expansion pack. I've played both, and enjoyed both immensely, in the various civ iterations over the last decade. "Roll the dice" gets you some intense gameplay and forces you to be much more cautious and defensive, and dictates an easier skill level just to survive. It also bumps up the tempo of the game as you whip through the turns. It's what you need to do if you want to play multiplayer and not get hammered.

"Save good results" OTOH makes the game easier, so to make it challenging you have to bump up the skill levels. It makes it possible to escalate to the harder levels earlier in the learning curve, letting you experience what it is like to be constantly behind for most of the game, and sometimes all of the game, as you work the exploits to try to counter the huge advantage the AI enjoys.

Some people don't get a thrill out of converting a 30 gold goodie hut into a 2000 or even 3000+ gold treasure. That's fine. Some people hate micromanaging their cities, trusting the AI to do a mediocre job so they can whiz through the game. That's fine, too. Some people even like to automate their settlers/pioneers, even though that results in forests being chopped and roads not being built. Fine again. Some people don't get a thrill out of beating the AI on insanely hard "deity" type levels. Fine yet again.

Play the game the way you enjoy playing it, and don't deride others for playing it the way they enjoy it. What is tedium to some is an exciting challenge for others. One person's bug is another person's feature. Let everyone maximize their enjoyment to suit their differing personalities.

And if the folks who develop Civ don't like these exploits, then they should put some thought into making them impossible or unprofitable.

 

[kaibayashi]

"In this case the player is cheating himself of the proper gameplaying experience."

So, by your standards is it cheating yourself of a "proper gameplaying experience" to play AoD2? Because that, too, is changing the rules of the game.

You get very different games if you play "roll the dice" vs. "save good results, restart bad results". It's almost like adding an expansion pack. I've played both, and enjoyed both immensely, in the various civ iterations over the last decade. "Roll the dice" gets you some intense gameplay and forces you to be much more cautious and defensive, and dictates an easier skill level just to survive. It also bumps up the tempo of the game as you whip through the turns. It's what you need to do if you want to play multiplayer and not get hammered.

"Save good results" OTOH makes the game easier, so to make it challenging you have to bump up the skill levels. It makes it possible to escalate to the harder levels earlier in the learning curve, letting you experience what it is like to be constantly behind for most of the game, and sometimes all of the game, as you work the exploits to try to counter the huge advantage the AI enjoys.

Some people don't get a thrill out of converting a 30 gold goodie hut into a 2000 or even 3000+ gold treasure. That's fine. Some people hate micromanaging their cities, trusting the AI to do a mediocre job so they can whiz through the game. That's fine, too. Some people even like to automate their settlers/pioneers, even though that results in forests being chopped and roads not being built. Fine again. Some people don't get a thrill out of beating the AI on insanely hard "deity" type levels. Fine yet again.

Play the game the way you enjoy playing it, and don't deride others for playing it the way they enjoy it. What is tedium to some is an exciting challenge for others. One person's bug is another person's feature. Let everyone maximize their enjoyment to suit their differing personalities.

And if the folks who develop Civ don't like these exploits, then they should put some thought into making them impossible or unprofitable.

Would you stop being so damn nice and reasonable?! You're making the rest of us look bad!!

 

[Bluetooth]

Park a few wagons with some cheap goods in nearby native villages (say, with 50 horses or so on board). Save your game at the end of each turn. If the next turn gets you a favorable outcome (the goods you buy in Europe get cheaper, or the goods you sell get more expensive), save and keep on playing......

If you play like that you’re a cheater. If you change the xml-files and get the same effect you’re a modder. Life is wonderful.

 

[prolefeed]

Re this: "Would you stop being so damn nice and reasonable?! You're making the rest of us look bad!! "

I can randomly sprinkle in phrases like "you c**ksucker" in my posts if it'll make you feel better ... )