How to Make Communism Work(ish)

I think you'll find that in this post you are not discussing the thread. Stop flaming and spamming and get going with the discussion. :mad:

On topic: I hold my views on communism from my last post in this thread.

Excellent: no we know what you think. Thank you.

On topic: what in particular are you looking for BTM? Economic policies? social policies?
 
And people continuing advocating Fascism yet you choose to speciffically target communism.

Communism is never Communism. The Original Communism was mostly a theory many have referred to as a 'Perfect Dream' While the 'Communist' Countries that have made their way to power are far from it.

I thought we were talking about communism. I could tell you how awful fascism is if you like, but I would only do that in a thread concerning fascism. This is a thread regarding communism, which, like fascism is bad, and in this thread about communism, I am telling a bunch of budding communists that my opinion of communists and communism is not good, because this is my view.

Excellent: no we know what you think. Thank you.

No problem, homie.
 
On topic: what in particular are you looking for BTM? Economic policies? social policies?

Rather a mix of both...

However, I hold Social Policies above the others... I believe that Equality and Rights are important, as stated before... That no system can hope to work if it doesn't address Equality. The US is equal, it has problems with Equality in some areas it would seem but is not abussive, this is one of the main reasons that since the Civil War there has really never been another Revolution.

It works because it is good to its people. Whos to say that a Communist System that cares for its people wouldn't work? I think it could.
 
The Better part of my new system however is meant to address Human Rights and equality. I myself hold Equality and Rights above almost all else. Racial, Gender, Class, Ect. Freedom of Speech. Freedom of Press. All that fine stuff many Communist Countries lack.
Communism apparently requires the mass murder of its own citizens. Communism and freedom apparently don't go together.

Is there anyway to make Communism work in any form?
No.

Our are we (Communists) all screwed?
I hope so, since I don't want to be murdered by an American Communist if they decide to revolt.
 
I thought we were talking about communism. I could tell you how awful fascism is if you like, but I would only do that in a thread concerning fascism. This is a thread regarding communism, which, like fascism is bad, and in this thread about communism, I am telling a bunch of budding communists that my opinion of communists and communism is not good, because this is my view.

And I could claim that Capitalism is bad (Though I don't believe that)... and again I could claim Stalemate in our arguements.

I requests veiws on ways to improve Communism. You have added nothing to this thread rather then a curving lane that leads away from the main point. I have asked how it can improve but rather then offering opinining you come here and attempt to state what you believe is fact and is undenieable.

I do not agree with you... You can think as you wish but You are adding no significance to the thread.
 
And I could claim that Capitalism is bad (Though I don't believe that)... and again I could claim Stalemate in our arguements.

I thought we were talking about communism. I could tell you about capitalism if you like, but I would only do that in a thread concerning capitalism. This is a thread regarding communism, and in this thread regarding communism, I am telling a bunch of budding communists that my opinion of communists and communism is not good, because this is my view.

I requests veiws on ways to improve Communism. You have added nothing to this thread rather then a curving lane that leads away from the main point. I have asked how it can improve but rather then offering opinining you come here and attempt to state what you believe is fact and is undenieable.

What I am saying is that there is no way of improving communism because the whole vital concepts of communism do not work. I think that is relevant in a thread where people are trying (in vain) to improve communism.
 
Communism apparently requires the mass murder of its own citizens. Communism and freedom apparently don't go together.


No.


I hope so, since I don't want to be murdered by an American Communist if they decide to revolt.

Least yours didn't start off with an attack on my intelligance.

Read the entire post, I do not addvocate Mass Murder or even a single Murder in the name of Communism... I am for Freedom... I do not support A bloody Revolution to bring Communism to power...Who knows, maybe one day a Communist Party will make progress in the US, get members in the Senate then get a president (Not likely)

My point is that you, like Rossiya are not offering any discussion to the topic but rather trying to force it into the road many other Topics on Communism end up in, an Arguement of both trying to claim one right and the other wrong.

I ask for Improvement Opinions and Advice, not Arguement.
 
What I am saying is that there is no way of improving communism because the whole vital concepts of communism do not work. I think that is relevant in a thread where people are trying (in vain) to improve communism.

Again, you add nothing to the Topic Subject then an Obstacle.

Everything can be improved. Communism. Capitalism. Equality. Ect. Think of It all like a Machine, its working but it might not be working well for some reason.

All I want to do is Tighten The Screws.
 
Again, you add nothing to the Topic Subject then an Obstacle.

I think I do. I am saying that there is no way that can make communism better. That is relevant in a thread asking if there is a way to improve communism.

Everything can be improved. Communism. Capitalism. Equality. Ect. Think of It all like a Machine, its working but it might not be working well for some reason.

Lots of things can be improved, communism isn't one of them.

All I want to do is Tighten The Screws.

In your head?
 
People equate Communism with Authoritarianism.

Authoritarianism is bad like everyone says, and can't work since people will eventually revolt due to not being represented properly.

However, all arguments I've seen against Communism so far are actually against Authoritarian Communism.
 
I think I do. I am saying that there is no way that can make communism better. That is relevant in a thread asking if there is a way to improve communism.?

Thats you're opinion and is backed with no significant prove or evidence so thusly I am free and have all right to that as Crap.

Lots of things can be improved, communism isn't one of them.

Ah, of course... You say it is so, it must be True!!! Try again, but this time make an arguement that is actually supposted with prove and not just speculation.

In your head?

Again, I am insulted merely for my beliefs on Communism... I have done nothing wrong and yet you pretty much laught at my ideas and claim me an idiot. Thats not right if you ask me.
 
I've finished with this thread. It's going round in circles.
 
The concept of Equality > Efficiency does not work.

Hence, Communism will never work.

~Chris

I wish to make it clear:

This Thread Is For Ways To Improvement Communism.

If you're coming here to post crap along the lines that Communism will never work and you are unable to provide clear and undeniable truth then pls just don't post.

I am here trying to create a working, equal form of Communism and so far all I've come up against is people claiming it will not work as though their word is absolute.
 
My opinion on Communism is that it is a perfectly valid system that has real merits. Unfortunately, the only way it is going to work is through the consent of the populace. Since that's unlikely (and authoritarian Communism is unsuccessful as shown in the past), it is doubtful we will experience Communism any time soon.
 
I've become increasingly infuriated with the opinions of many on the subject of Communism and how their generalization is basically "If You're A Commie = Evil"...

...

An obvious obstacle is the Centralized System for distributing Wealth... Which doesn't stand well with many and further more raisings resistance from the Greedy, Capitalists, ect. ...

...

Is there anyway to make Communism work in any form? Our are we (Communists) all screwed?

Well, I don't think communism is evil, as long as nobody tries to make me live there (and by that, I mean change the society I live in, and enjoy living in). But if someone created a commune or small state somewhere else I wouldn't mind having them as neighbours, as long as it was optional, and I didn't think people were being denied their rights to leave.

As for the redistribution of wealth... I don't believe everyone has to have the same for everyone to have enough. While I can see some redistribution being useful to help those who can't help themselves, I see any further interference as completely unnecessary, and a violation of individual rights.

I know opponents of collectivism are often painted as greedy capitalists, but the truth is, we are more than happy to share with our friends and loved ones, and frequently do. I don't drink, but if I'm out with friends I still buy a round. Its having the choice taken away that doesn't really sit well with a lot of us.

Having your own personal finances also gives you more control over your life. I'm trying not to bring up the efficiency argument, but I do believe individuals are better able to decide what they need. Its the freedom to make those choices that makes life interesting. They make the difference between living and existing.

I don't want rations, or an equal share of the food the government thinks I should have. I might not like certain things, and I might like certain things more. I might eat less than someone else, or more because I do more physical activity. Luckily I don't require a special diet like some people, though I do avoid meat if i can (I'm not a proper veggie though).

Money is only a means of exchange. By having your own money, and deciding how to spend it, you can make great changes to your lifestyle very quickly, in order to put funds where you want them. I don't care if I can have an equal share in a cabbage factory. I don't like cabbages. Or factories.

One thing I wonder about is how a collectivist society would cope with people travelling abroad? What will they do when they get there if they don't have money to take? How will society fund the trips, and what rules would govern where people could go, and for how long? I can't see the government giving everyone a free cruise every year.

My best friends live abroad, and I visit them every chance I get. I would feel terrible if I couldn't see them as often as I want to. I would hate to have to put in a request for travel with an official or government department. What if there's an emergency, like my friend has an accident? I could raid my savings to fund a sudden trip, but how would that society cope with my sudden need to go at short notice?

Unless its operated on a first come first served basis, or everybody has access to the very best holidays, you couldn't treat travellers equally. The first solution means you might be denied the ability to leave the country, or not get to travel at short notice for things like funerals or weddings. The second solution isn't very likely due to the cost.

Anyway, if you want communism to work, you need support. Right now in the west you don't have it, and its not just because of anti-communist propaganda. No matter how warped the systems were in the soviet union or wherever, they're the only examples that people have to go on.

If you want to convince people to throw out a system they are used to and feel secure in, you need to show them that your alternative can work. People aren't going to be happy when you tell them "its never been tried".

The only way I think you could do it is to build a community yourself, with some buddies. Not only do you have to make it successful, you have to show you can operate it while respecting people's rights (I appreciate that you mentioned this yourself).

From there, I doubt it will still have wide appeal, but you might be able to grow. Your community might attract a few members here and there. You need to decide how you're going to handle growth. Will you accept the elderly and disabled? What about the poor? Will the community provide everything for new arrivals, or do they have to pay to get in?

Getting people to give up their rights to private property will be one of your biggest obstacles. People like the idea that they can get their own ebay shop, or set up a company (or even work out of their garage, making a bit extra to fund their lifestyle). This is reflected in the popularity of online games where players must raise their character's individual strengths to get ahead and make a profit.

Perhaps this is something you can look into. Try running an online MMORPG with a collectivist system. See if you get people interested in it, and see if you can keep the system working without too much interference and "cheating" by programming solutions around its problems.
 
Nephrite....

Of all the posts made in this tread... yours is really one of the few that effectively addresses the subject at hand, give unbiased opinions and actually help me out.

Thank you comrade.
 
Communism as economy theory cannot work in its perfect system unless you have a small group with strong social bonds. Period. End of sentence. There is no getting around the math here of this, the social economics of this, unless you're going to proclaim game theory absolutely wrong on every level.

You CAN have a state like many in Europe that provide large social welfare nets and a free market. That obviously, in real life, does work, appears to be where the bulk of modern economies are headed, as a hybrid between socialism and capitalism.

What a great retort Nephrite. I completely agree with your sentiment.
 
I think what confuses a lot of people is that communism isn't really an economic theory originally, it's a social justice theory. And then people tried to build an economic system around it. But in doing so, they didn't consult any actual economists, so there were simply too many gaping holes between what they wanted to do and what was possible.
 
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