How to make Tourism more relevant

[OmniPotent42]

The current issue with tourism is that it is a binary yield - if you have it, you are on your way to a cultural victory, if not, you don't need to worry if you have other victory conditions open. Sure you can force an ideology, but in the end that really doesn't hurt all that much.

One way to make it less binary is to factor in tourism for trade route gold yields, but I think we can do better than that.

What if each type of great work yielded a different benefit? The culture and tourism numbers would stay the same, but we could add different bonuses to different kinds of works!

Great Work of Art: +2 gold. If the work of art is in a themed museum, the piece gains gold equal to the theming bonus. (so in the Louvre, it would give a total of 2 culture, 2 tourism, and 10 gold, right? Isn't the Louvre a +8?)

Great Work of Writing: +2 science. If the work of writing is in a themed building, it gains science equal to the theming bonus (so oxford would make it yield 2 culture, 2 tourism, and 4 science)

Great Work of Music: +2 faith. (Yeah, I know it doesn't make a lot of sense, but music is mostly associated with religious elements in various cultures). Same rule as others, Broadway would add +3 faith to the work.

Artifact - will give random yields (either gold, science, or faith.) Same theming bonus applies.

I chose gold for Art, because gold is most associated with prestige and nobility, and they are willing to pay gold to see it. And I chose science for writing as a lot of pieces of writing influenced the civilizations that pondered them, increasing their intellect.

Thoughts? Questions? Comments?

 

[werothegreat]

It may have slipped your notice that everything that generates Tourism also generates Culture - GWs are the primary way to pump up your Culture output. More GWs means more Social Policies, faster, along with all the Tourism benefits. And neglecting either your Tourism or your Culture will prove rather dire for you once you get an Ideology - unless you pick one already chosen by a Cultured civ (in which case you won't get the free tenets), you will be plunged into wild unhappiness, and you will start to lose cities.

I've found that the Culture, Science and Diplomatic victories all sort of go together - you need the techs in order to get the relevant culture bits required, and fostering good relations with city-states gives you both more culture and other resources, but more sway in the World Congress, allowing you to pass Culture or Science related motions. Play your cards right, and by the Atomic era you'll just have to choose which victory you want.

 

[Vidszhite]

The AI doesn't ignore its culture on higher difficulties, and I know that even on Emperor it sometimes does, but if you're not generating tourism (and thus, culture), on Immortal, the AI will start to influence you, and if you're not at the same level of influence as them, they will start to cause revolutions in your empire, so if you want to choose YOUR ideology, you DO need tourism. You can't neglect the culture game like you could in GNK, it's just as important as science.

Now, about your proposals, I don't think it adds anything interesting to the game, nor does it change how you play it. In fact, I think it would take things away, because the only thing it does do is give you even more reason not to use a GWAM's secondary ability. You can't exactly target what works you get without faith purchasing, and even worse, you are proposing that artifacts also be totally random in what they give you. What if you're a secular civ and you get faith artifacts? Pointless. If you're ignoring your own tourism and are staving off opposing tourism by using Writers for Political Writs, you're going to have a worse time getting science because you didn't use him get a writing, which puts you at a severe disadvantage. That 2 Science gets multiplied by Universities, Research Labs, and National College, and it would add up FAST in a capital city with lots of writing slots and wonders. This also makes the Great Library even more powerful. The decision of whether or not to use a GWAM's secondary ability needs to be a choice, and if you give bonuses for great works that isn't tourism, there isn't a choice anymore.

So, my ultimate vote is a big, emphatic no. Tourism is fine the way it is, it doesn't need to be any more all-encompassing than it already gets late into the game.

 

[OmniPotent42]

The AI doesn't ignore its culture on higher difficulties, and I know that even on Emperor it sometimes does, but if you're not generating tourism (and thus, culture), on Immortal, the AI will start to influence you, and if you're not at the same level of influence as them, they will start to cause revolutions in your empire, so if you want to choose YOUR ideology, you DO need tourism. You can't neglect the culture game like you could in GNK, it's just as important as science.

Now, about your proposals, I don't think it adds anything interesting to the game, nor does it change how you play it. In fact, I think it would take things away, because the only thing it does do is give you even more reason not to use a GWAM's secondary ability. You can't exactly target what works you get without faith purchasing, and even worse, you are proposing that artifacts also be totally random in what they give you. What if you're a secular civ and you get faith artifacts? Pointless. If you're ignoring your own tourism and are staving off opposing tourism by using Writers for Political Writs, you're going to have a worse time getting science because you didn't use him get a writing, which puts you at a severe disadvantage. That 2 Science gets multiplied by Universities, Research Labs, and National College, and it would add up FAST in a capital city with lots of writing slots and wonders. This also makes the Great Library even more powerful. The decision of whether or not to use a GWAM's secondary ability needs to be a choice, and if you give bonuses for great works that isn't tourism, there isn't a choice anymore.

So, my ultimate vote is a big, emphatic no. Tourism is fine the way it is, it doesn't need to be any more all-encompassing than it already gets late into the game.

Wait... so you're saying that giving minor bonuses to Great Works would make using the alternate abilities worthless?

To be honest, the alternate abilities SUCK until the late game when you have 100 tourism per turn, because of the snowball effect of continuous bonuses. Golden ages will still be much more awesome than +2 gold.

And Your other points are rather illogical. You can target which kinds of GWAMS you get by manipulating specialists. A cultural civ won't mind extra faith or science or gold, even if that is not their intended desire. This suggestion adds more reason to build up tourism than a one-time empire revolt, which I have gone through with little consequence. The different ideologies aren't so different that you would actually struggle.

 

[dragodon64]

I really like the OP's proposal. Getting +2 +2 tourism from a great person is meh at best in the middle ages or renaissance, when you'll most likely be getting your first of each GWAM. But adding that +2, or would make producing GWAMs much more fruitful right off the bat.

 

[OmniPotent42]

I really like the OP's proposal. Getting +2 +2 tourism from a great person is meh at best in the middle ages or renaissance, when you'll most likely be getting your first of each GWAM. But adding that +2, or would make producing GWAMs much more fruitful right off the bat.

Exactly. Plus it would help wide or conquering empires a bit with their development as well.