How to manage happiness without piety?

[Salil]

Hey Friends,
Had a couple of questions:
1. How do you manage happiness without going down the route of piety and forsaking rationalism? I am always struggling for happiness inspite of having almost every other resource in the world. I do usually build happiness buildings real fast but still during a war I capture about 3 cities and lo and behold I am down in unhappiness and since I puppet these cities I can't build any happiness building in them. Makes me wonder if it is better to annex these cities and build a courthouse in them?
2. I usually notice that even though all the time CS declare war against me when I capture two of them I end up getting a chain denunciation. Is this still the case after the patch too? I am about to capture my 2nd CS in the next turn in the current game I am playing?
3. Is there a pre-move option? The problem I have is that sometimes I click on a target for artillery before setting it up and lo and behold the artillery decides to move to that unit and attack it physically instead of doing a range attack. Is there a way to prevent this? Also sometimes I give a command to a unit to move to a particular tile which is just 2 hexes away and it decides to move half around the world since it is blocked by some entities? I usually do right click and then check the path before releasing the mouse issuing the command but if I find the path is not right how do I cancel it?

 

[blac]

1. Don't expand to fast, you might have too many cities too. Try to go for some really "tall" cities instead of 10 weaker ones. Playing as Gandi makes it easier to manage happiness as well.
2.I've never had a CS declare on me unless it was because of another civ declaring on me. If you take 2 CS then all the city states will start to become scared of you, and some will be stuck in prema war
3.Set it up first, then click on the ranged fire icon off to the left hand side, thats how I've always done it

 

[Salil]

Yes. Usually it is because some other civ who is it's ally that the city state declares war on me. However, in this case I have to take Warsaw to get to China who has declared war on me and Warsaw being it's ally has to be taken since it stands between my empire and Chinese. I was wondering if with the changes made in the patch if the other civs do understand that war has been forced on me and I have to take that city to defend myself.
I was wondering if I right click on a spot I see the path the unit will take but was wondering if there is a key that can be used to cancel this?

 

[Civ4Brains]

piety is not the only way of creating happiness with social policy, even rationalism has a happiness boost policy via cities with universities.

you can always cap and raze cities to lower the pop then puppet or annex. annex only very good cities (if you can take the happiness hit). puppet if average city but contains new happiness resource or perhaps if in a good tactical position. otherwise, just raze it - you don't have to take every city.

plan ahead which cities you want to raze, puppet and annex. try and co-ordinate the timing of each capture so that you are not stacking unhappiness in swift succession.

if you have enough money I guess you could annex and purchase a courthouse, but imo its more efficient to strategise your wars and city acquisition than panic buy a 600 building.

chain denounces have improved, but still occur. as regards to civ's understanding your predicament... no if you can entice someone you want to be at war with into DoW on you first then do this. civs will be less inclined to call you a warmonger, but even then the system is not infallible.

regards to CS's - they are a very useful resource. getting them on your side as opposed to attacking them provides way more advantages. buy enough influence to make Warsaw switch allegiance from China to you. will annoy China no end, can now use their land for getting army into China hopefully once Wu declares on you, gain a possible happiness resource - a better use of gold than the aforementioned courthouse.

possibly upload a save if you are still really struggling.

 

[BINARYGOD]

Only build hapiness building when you need to and dont think you need some high hapiness - anything over zerp is good. if its under zero a little, make some hapiness buildings...

I am ignoring, so far, both peity and rationalism (just like in real life lol) in my current game, but I also have the the first or second largest empire based on territory, but I def dont in terms of cities. I have 6 cities - 3 I made on my own and 3 I capture from Caesar.

But I also have help from some options in the first two branches that make it slightly easier...

 

[Salil]

One big problem is that when civs offer peace they offer 4-5 cities. If I take all of them then I end up with big unhappiness. I guess I could turn down the peace offering and then ask for peace again with the cities after boosting happiness.
Too late about Warsaw I have completely surrounded it and bombarded it with artillery so she is going to be gone next turn. My ally Arabia who is pretty weak has pledged to protect her but Arabia is at war with China so Warsaw should be at war with Arabia too. Let's see what happens next turn when I capture the city.
I prefer keeping happiness just above 0 and get all my golden ages via great people. I never ever get to the required figure of happiness for golden ages except for in the earlier stages.

 

[Salil]

You guys were right. I took Warsaw and then my ally Arabia denounced me and then a string of 4-5 civs denounced me. I had research agreements with all of them. After some time Gandhi declares war on me cancelling their research agreement. My financial and research center is very close to the indian empire and a little far from my main empire thought well connected and well defended and supported by a great general.. Gandhi attacks me with about 25 units, 7 of them artillery. I fend them off though the city came very close to falling, I barely kept it in my hands with artillery units. The city is surrounded by 5-6 units of infantry and cavalry all badly wounded and in red. I don't kill them because unless they move new units can't directly attack my city and I keep attacking new units with artillery fire reducing them to red. On the other side I take back a city that the chinese empire had take a 100 turns ago. It had two happiness resources keeping my happiness at about 7. So I am thinking I might do well here if I can keep my financial city. Lo and behold the civs that previously denouce me declare war against me cancelling their research agreements and trade agreements. All of a sudden I am at -10 happiness surrounded by enemies against whom I am fighting with a -33% penalty. I buy a circus in the newly captured town to remove the penalty. After a couple of turns of fighting Gandhi's artillery attack manages to bring my cities defences to yellow. Still there is no infantry unit that can take the city because all units surrounding me are red. One of those units heals completely and takes my city. This is one tactic that the AI uses quite often it keeps a low red unit near the city and then heals it completely. In this game both the chinese and the indians took cities from me this way. I wonder if this is some kind of cheating which they are doing or it is just a clever strategy to take the city. Most human player would immediately reheal the unit fearing that city bombardment might kill the unit in the next turn. On the other side China launches an air and artillery attack on my newly captures city and I lose the city and the great general in the process. On the other hand I get two free technologies via rationalism social policy in the next turn and I can select 'Flight' and 'Combustion' giving me powerful fighting units, but I am so f****** frustrated that I quit the game. The AI definitely ganged up on me after I captured Warsaw. Warsaw and Singapore declared war on me what am I supposed to do bribe them gold to defend myself? This is just not fair, if one empire declares war on the other there should be no diplomatic penalties on the defending empire. Is there a mod that changes this stupid denouncements for defending myself or is there a way to make this change? I wish there was an option to turn off these f**** up denouncements.

 

[skallben]

Please don't take this as an insult, but it would really be alot easier to read your text if you broke it up with some space. Trying to read walls of text makes my eyes go

 

[Salil]

I am sorry. It was 4 at night and I was frustrated so was ranting and raving. It's a beautiful game otherwise just if they fix the sorry denouncing stuff things would be a lot better.

 

[noncognosco]

Don't conquer city states. Just kill their units and then ignore them.

 

[Salil]

Ya but this particular CS was in between my way and the Chinese empire so when my units pass through they would get city bombed by it and being rough terrain I would lose at least 1 unit. Plus I will have to station my artillery near it's city thereby losing more units. I have been asking this question many times. I don't find any mod that changes diplomacy. Is it just impossible to make one or people are happy with this aspect of the game.

 

[DemonMaster]

So if I got you correctly you are angry because you have problem with happiness due to the fact that you have taken every city they offered you in the peace treaty (regardless if they are of use) and you are also angry that a lot of civs denounced you and some even DoW on you because you did what Germany was doing during WWII, overrun Poland just because you needed "lebensraum" and that because you needed that lebensraum on your mission to take more cities.

No, I can't understand either why this very peace-loving playing style failed.

Some serious notes.
I try to balance my "warmongering". In this case, why not buy yourself some friendship or even an alliance with Warzaw. And then if you have more money, perhaps lure a civ to join you, then the denouncing-maniac civs sometimes start denounce each other and even make war on each other. I have actually started to become quite good at this (playing with the game and not stubbornly going against it, that is).

 

[Salil]

because you did what Germany was doing during WWII, overrun Poland just because you needed "lebensraum"

Ok I didn't know that Poland had declared war on Germany because it was an ally of Russia and Germary had to capture Poland in order to recapture two of it's cities which was annexed by Russia. If that is what world history is then you are right I am a "warmongerer".

Like I said before I was forced upon to fight by China and it captured two of my cities. Second of all Warsaw had declared war against Arabia and Arabia had lost muliple cities to China. I am not sure if a CS accepts money from another Civ and declares war on me why I shouldn't be allowed to capture it? Are civs supposed to just bribe an attacking CS, so they have some special privileges that they can be a mercenary to anyone who pays them most money?

 

[noncognosco]

I have been asking this question many times. I don't find any mod that changes diplomacy.

I have not tried either, but the What Would Ghandi Do mod is supposed to be good for diplomacy. There is also one called something like City States Diplomacy that is supposed to make big changes in the CS role in the game.

 

[Dralix]

I am not sure if a CS accepts money from another Civ and declares war on me why I shouldn't be allowed to capture it?

You are allowed to capture it, but you have to deal with the consequences. One consequence is a huge diplo hit for capturing city states.

 

[DemonMaster]

Ok I didn't know that Poland had declared war on Germany because it was an ally of Russia and Germary had to capture Poland in order to recapture two of it's cities which was annexed by Russia. If that is what world history is then you are right I am a "warmongerer".

Like I said before I was forced upon to fight by China and it captured two of my cities. Second of all Warsaw had declared war against Arabia and Arabia had lost muliple cities to China. I am not sure if a CS accepts money from another Civ and declares war on me why I shouldn't be allowed to capture it? Are civs supposed to just bribe an attacking CS, so they have some special privileges that they can be a mercenary to anyone who pays them most money?

Sorry but I can't follow the story line of that game (your post above is very hard to read). Anyway, my example above was merely a way to say that sometimes capturing a city or accept all the cities a civ give you due to a peace treaty is not the best solution.

Perhaps in your particular game the "sum of all hate" has reach the point of no return and therefore every civ/cs is doing what they did in your game. But usually (at least post-patch217) a civ/cs don't do stuff for no reason. The reason maybe sometimes feel like cosmic dust in the universe, but if you add a lot of cosmic dust together it can be significant.

I have had game like yours but I am getting better and better in CiV diplomacy I must say. In one of my more recent games (post-patch217) I wanted to take out China. I had already been quite a warmonger in the game so I realized that if I press on I will get a world war against me. My solution was to look at who disliked who. I tried to have someone else to be blamed. By using the denounce system myself I got myself some new friends (and less enemies). I captured Beijing and was not DoW by anyone or denounced only by one just because some Civs liked me just because I have denounced the same civ they had. It was like WWI actually, without the blaming aftermath.