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How to maximize Science?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by RoboEmperor, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. knighterrant81

    knighterrant81 Chieftain

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    I wonder if part of the problem is actually your difficulty level. This actually works better at higher difficulties. One of the things they aren't telling you is how they are all selling EVERYTHING to the AI as soon as they possibly can. That doesn't really get you all that much at Prince or King, but at higher difficulties, it is an integral part of almost any strategy. The AI generates a lot of gold on the highest difficulties, and the player can use that to their advantage to really boost their progress.
     
    Victoria likes this.
  2. Jerovich

    Jerovich Chieftain

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    Hello RoboEmperor!

    I've done another run on Science with Pericles. Deity, continents, all the rest standard. As knighterrant said, once you get on the mechanics playing on more difficult levels makes your victories faster. The AI generates more gold than in lower difficulties and you can trade with them a lot more.

    My goal was to achieve the fastest Science Victory that I could, but it may differ from your GDR goal in the last 40 turns maybe.

    Here there are some screenshots of turns 100 (expansion phase), 133 (consolidation phase) and 185 (victory). In them you can see the layout of my cities, districts, etc.




    Turn 100: As you can see it's not that impressive, only 8 cities, but with a planned strategy for them and some key wonders already built (Oracle, Colosseum, Pyramids).

    Pericles Turn 100.jpg



    Turn 133: Here there is the result of the plan. After some warring with my dear friend Monty I ended with like 15 - 16 cities (perfect for science pushing, more you'll lack of amenities probably). Wonders built: Kilwa and Forbidden City.

    Pericles Turn 133.jpg



    Turn 185: And here you have it the turn before arriving to stars. Wonders built: Potala Palace, Oxford University and Ruhr Valley.

    Pericles SV T185.jpg



    As said before, it may differ from your goal of arriving to GDRs in the last 40 turns or so, where you can focus on going towards Robotics instead of all the techs needed for a science victory.

    I've saves from all those turns if you wanna take a look on them or something. And of course feel free to ask. Hope it helped a bit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
    Victoria, incroc and RoboEmperor like this.
  3. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    all the saves would be awesome. I need to see how you skyrocket your culture that quickly and such and nothing is better for learning than starting on an earlier save and trying to match your results of your later saves.

    Based on your screenshots, it's my sneaking suspicion that you guys are stealing 8 fully developed and built cities from deity AI and that's how you skyrocket your science that quickly. Because you don't need to spend 50 turns building all the campus stuff.

    It might also have something to do with wonders. I built 0 wonders.

    Also why do you guys keep going Pericles? I've read every article I could find and they all say Korea is no.1 for science.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  4. Jerovich

    Jerovich Chieftain

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    Ok I'll upload them so you can take a look.

    Not really. Conquered 6 cities, one of them just founded by Shaka and captured by Monty. The original 5 from Monty had 4 campuses, 4 libraries and 1 university. Not that much of an advantage.

    The key is to invest hard on culture so you can reach to important governments and policies faster. Plan your districts carefully and build key wonders.

    Oracle + Pingala x3 grants you 6 GPP of all types you have a district in the city.

    Pyramids is the best wonder in the game probably. 220 cogs for an extra charge on ALL your builders along the game.

    Colosseum generates like 12 - 16 culture and 12 - 16 amenities. In turns 70 - 80 that is too much.

    Forbidden City let you use one more wildcard policy.

    Kilwa Kisiwani boost your yields in all cities by 15% as long as you suzerain 2 or more of that type.

    Potala Palace let you use one more dipomatic policy.

    Oxford University grants you 2 random techs late game (which can be roughly 4000 science) for only 1620 production. Totally worth it.

    Ruhr Valley gives that city 20% production boost and +1 on each mine and quarry. So useful if you wanna have one mega industrial city (Spaceport or the one to build GDRs) :goodjob:
     
  5. Jerovich

    Jerovich Chieftain

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    Maybe for your plan Korea is a great civ.

    But I'll hazard to say Pericles is better suited for a science victory than Seondeok because of his culture advantages.

    How to science win fast? Culture and production :lol:
     
  6. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    Perhaps dissecting your saves will finally make me understand why this is.

    Theory: Seondeok gets +50% from rationalism due to +3 adjacency while other civs do not because it is ridiculously hard to get +3 adjacency on a campus. So her science output should be equal to culture civs with international space agency except she's been receiving that 50% bonus for a while now while Pericles has not.

    Yet you have 2500 science when I can barely break 800 if I'm lucky. Even if I double my cities I will barley hit 1600 so you are clearly right that pericles > korea but I just don't understand how so I need to dissect your saves!

    Anyways you've been a real help. Thanks! Can't wait to finally beat deity with GDRs! That would qualify as beating the game for me : )
     
  7. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    I'm slowly watching this
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...ky-rome-video-strategy-and-discussion.627129/

    And I think I nailed your guy's strategy
    1. Get as many luxuries as possible and sell it all and then buy a ton of settlers with that.
    2. Get as many great writers as possible and then SELL the works. I've been wondering why you guys were focusing so hard on great writers when you don't have enough slots to put the works in.
    3. Since you're buying everything getting that IZ AoE on the outer cities doesn't matter since you're just gonna buy the buildings there.

    So the only thing left is to figure out how you got your yields in the thousands so can't wait for that save!

    As far as I can tell the only diff between mine and your strategy is you buy everything while I build everything, and you go culture first while I don't.
     
  8. Jerovich

    Jerovich Chieftain

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    Hi there!

    Here you are the saves we talked before. I hope you can play them since I'm playing on the game version just previous to the Antarctic Patch (I can't manage to make it work on my computer). I also use the TCS Walls for City States mod.

    It's not really that hard. Now we have those geothermal fissures it's much easier. You've to be lucky on mountains though. For cities without them you can use the Governmental Plaza to give adjacency to 3 - 4 campuses.

    I've bought only one settler in that game, and it was so late to really impact anything (turn 120 - 130).

    Regarding the luxuries, I usually sell the first 3 or 4 always for GPT. After that I go for ecstatic on all my cities for all the game (+20% growth, and +10% on the rest of the yields).

    I usually sell only the first great work I have, because by that time it's common to have only one slot available (capital). After that I keep them for the culture, even so it implies putting to sleep a writer for a few turns.

    In this game I've given you the saves from, I've bought maybe 2 or 3 libraries, 1 university and 1 research lab. All the rest were built or chopped.

    One noticeable aspect here is I bought the Spaceport with Reyna for 7200 gold (thanks Victoria) :mischief:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2019
  9. playshogi

    playshogi Chieftain

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    Where do you build the government plaza? I don't want it in my capital where Pingala is, because that city needs acropolis, campus and comm. hub. My next best city has campus, entertainment complex, acropolis and it will be ages to get to size 10. My 3rd city could build it but forget about any adjacency value, except for its acropolis.
     
  10. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    not only as said is gold hugely better at higher levels but there are more cities to conquer. For example it may be better playing near Korea than playing as Korea. On immortal/deity CS now survive a bit better than king/emp.
    The international space station is the main reason, and Peacefully Peri gets an awful lot of dip points which are sellable, and envoys are very powerful in this game with Peri getting extra ones per theatre.
    why is a comm hub so desperate in your capital? the early plaza really helps especially if you have harvest.

    Another super hot player for SV is Gilgamesh. Those ziggurats, non maintenance upgradable donkey carts, bonus goody hut prizes and half price levy are a great combo. Genghis also can be great purely because he can take to whole damn map so fast but in reality Peri, Korea and Gilgamesh I would say are top 3 (well based on Chinese forum experience and they love playing fast victories)

    I have not been playing for a while but am tempted, love the GDR target, not one I had tried but would imagine as we can get SV’s below 150 GDR’s are possible.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  11. Jerovich

    Jerovich Chieftain

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    I just started a Korea run aiming for those GDRs.

    I'll try to forget about those requirements for a SV like a supermegahyperproductive spaceport city or the bunch of trade routes needed.

    Really? in Gathering Storm? OMG that's awesome!

    Fastest SV I've got so far is 185 with Pericles.
     
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I’ll have a game and see how I go as Gilgamesh on immortal Pangea. So much depends on luck but hey.
     
  13. playshogi

    playshogi Chieftain

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    I think maybe you are right about the comm hub in the capital. I only thought about the extra great merchant points Pingala would provide, but those are not necessary to science victory. Thanks, for making me think more about that. I don't have harvest though and my capital is food poor.
     
  14. incroc

    incroc Chieftain

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    Always in one of the two first cities. Adjacencies are secondary to fast settlers w/ free builder for me. Although with tight city placements, it's quite easy to put it somewhere that helps a few campuses if need be.

    I plan to have around 5 wood chops* to use for settlers in that city right after Ancestral Hall is up.

    Some of the great merchants are great, some are terrible. I never really focus too hard on those, it's much less important.

    *Or equivalent. Stone is 1.5x woods ish, Jungle is 0.5x.
     
  15. wutface

    wutface Chieftain

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    or
    butcher everything in sight and take all their good_stuff for yourself
    Spoiler depredation :
    20190615152412_1.jpg
     
  16. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    If you can have lots of save! Like one every 20 turns or something. If it's not too much trouble.

    And china says Korea is up there with peri! Being korean I like playing korea : )
     
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  17. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    Just a slight personal note, I think using that wall mod is "cheating" because part of the deity difficulty is that city states die so suzerain related civs would lose power but with that mod you kind of circumvented that challenge. Just my personal musing.
     
  18. Jerovich

    Jerovich Chieftain

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    I'm saving often so I can share them with you.

    I started using that mod at the time the new patch included walls for City States on Deity, and just because my computer doesn't seem to support the new patch (hoping for the June one to work).
     
  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I’m at 542 science at T112 but not been saving often.
    I may have skimped to much on the culture though... often my problem with donkey carts.
    Will know soon enough.
     
  20. Jerovich

    Jerovich Chieftain

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    I'd love taking a look on one of those saves Victoria if you don't mind. Pretty good numbers there.

    I'm having hard times trying to focus on pure science. My mouse auto-click on theatres :lol:
     

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