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How to not select a tech in first 5 turns.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gumbolt, May 20, 2014.

  1. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    So first five turns you can select no tech. The issue is I keep getting box asking me to select a tech. I am missing something. ;)

    How many people actually use this???
     
  2. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    Select a random tech, then on top of your screen deselect that tech again..repeat 5x Gumbibear ;)
     
  3. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    That is where I was going wrong. :)
     
  4. shakabrade

    shakabrade Praise Vivec!

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    Me? Always.

    If you meet AIs knowing the tech you are about to research, then all your ''banked'' research gets a bonus and, on standard map and normal speed, you often gain a turn of research. Agriculture often lacks a single beaker.

    You also have opportunity to gain some map knowledge prior to choosing the tech. Great stuff.
     
  5. RJM

    RJM Prince

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    I tried delaying the choice of tech for a while (and sometimes I still do). However, I rarely noticed any benefit. It certainly wasn't the case that I "often" gained a turn. I suppose it depends on what your initial research tech is. In my case I will research agriculture or fishing if they are needed for my initial food resource. If not, I typically research mining (or bronze working if I have mining already).
     
  6. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    So why does it work for 5 turns??? On 6th turn you lose all the research??

    Yep 1 turn off a basic tech would be a big early headstart.

    I am still thinking about an IU map. Found an Aztec map but I thought it would be too lack lustre start.
     
  7. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    While I know I should do this all the time, in practice I rarely do, muvch like binary research.

    Does anyone know off hand how many of the AIs you neeed to meet in the first 5 turns to knock a turn or so off researching with normal settings, I know its going to be a fraction of the ingame civs, but would just 1 civ be enough?
    I believe so.
     
  8. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    Shakabrade kind of mentioned this already, but it's also very valuable when deciding if you actually want to tech something like AH. It's fairly common for me to be on the fence about early AH and gaining 5T to explore and possibly find more AH resources can make the decision much easier.

    OTOH, if you know your first tech is going to be something like BW there's really no point in doing it because no AI will have BW in the first 5T and copper cannot be seen yet.
     
  9. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    But if you have to research mining first, then it could be useful.
     
  10. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    Yep, anything that can be an AI starting tech.
     
  11. NihilZero

    NihilZero WHEOOHRNY

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    On the 6th turn the game goes behind your back and techs Hunting without telling you. Pretty cheeky, if you ask me.

    If you already have hunting, I'm not sure what it techs. Fishing? Probably the cheapest tech.
     
  12. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Thanks guys, I never knew this. But I'm sure the first time I try it, I too will forget about the 6th turn and end up researching hunting.
     
  13. blunderwonder

    blunderwonder Prince

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    Im pretty sure you guys are wrongish :p

    but maybe its me, i read a long time ago about the tech trading thing, and thats one of the reason "binary" research is useful.

    You can stop research for 5T, doing what your doing, but it doesnt? get you the bonus for those turns, only the remaining ones. What i mean to say is in that thread he said that, based on how much a tech costs, you can figure out how many civs are on the map, or how many have that tech, even if you havnt met them it affects the cost of the research for the tech.

    Binary research is nice because while your sitting at 0% and waiting, other civs may learn those techs, then you can get the bonus when you put turns into it, im not certain about stopping AH for 5T, then then during that 5T, every other civ learns it and you have 25% more beakers than you thought, or maybe you only get 25% off on the remaining ones, which seems more likely to me. Either way, its annoying having to do that, especially if you accidently lose all your research. Early in the game you might save 1 or 2 T for techs or 20-30 beakers lol, but in the long run, binary research is probably going to save alot more.

    I recently started saving some of my coins so i could go 100% during GA's, its not a net gain, but if they learn alot of techs while your waiting, or you just want to power through 2 or 3 techs, if you have beauro cap and are starving other cities for GP's, its alot more commerce running through the science sliders, and you tech so fast that its harder for other civs to get the jump on your monopoly 2 turns before you get there.

    This stuff should all be pretty easy to figure out, just set up a settler/easy game with a gold mine, and worldbuilder the other civs the proper techs after you have 5T saved into it, you may have to meet them, but i dont remember that being the case.
     
  14. shakabrade

    shakabrade Praise Vivec!

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    I am pretty sure that you get the bonus upon meeting the civ.
    Why else would it be that after meeting the civ on T5 the counter until finishing the tech drops?

    Also, on populated maps, that is not so rare. I am very cheap in my early game and also use slider actively every turn to at least T40 to avoid truncating losses. Sometimes you don't get those free beakers finishing your first tech, but they are there, overflowng, and will often help you get the tech 1T earlier in first 50T while it still has an impact. Later, you usually have enough cities to painlessly switch grassland farm to coast or something like that when you are a few beakers short.
     
  15. blunderwonder

    blunderwonder Prince

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    Well if no one comes around to verify all this ill have to stop being lazy and just check it myself

    I also remember from that thread that there was more to it

    if every civ knows fishing, and you have say 1 beaker left till fishing is over, if your at 100%, and finish fishing, the beakers that "overflow" into sailing get the bonus from fishing, while the beakers that go into sailing for that turn only get the bonus from civs that know sailing. But im going to set up archipelago, force no growth in my city, and put it on settler so the other civs dont tech stuff very fast and ill give them techs without seeing them to at least prove or disprove that you need to meet them.
     
  16. chrisg7

    chrisg7 Chieftain

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    I'm sorry I'm the only noob here it looks like, but could someone just explain all of this in laymans terms?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. blunderwonder

    blunderwonder Prince

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    Theyre talking about researching techs, theres a thread in war academy i think that explains it, basically - for each tech, you can get discounts.

    for each prerequisite, you get 20% i think, and based on each civ that knows that tech

    and i just checked, you must meet them to get the bonus, you get an additional discount if they know the tech, its not much though, i think even if you know every civ, and they all have the tech its only like 20ish percent, it depends on the map size and # of civs, and maybe the speed of the game.


    the first post is about how to do it, and for some reason its not working for me in the little game i made on settler, but each turn it prompts you to select a tech to research, even if your research is at 0%, so if you set your research to 100%, then click the thing your researching a bar will come up with little icons for you to switch to, and for 5 turns you're supposed to be able to do that without losing research, and it sort of researches all of them, your beakers get invested, but you can wait 5 turns before picking the tech you want to actually research.
     
  18. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    Actually, now that i look into this further, I'm not sure the stored beakers are getting the bonus. After meeting two civs we get a 10% research bonus which is enough to avoid rounding and gives us an extra beaker per turn on the tech. One civ and 5% bonus does nothing. When letting research go into Ag on 5th turn i get 51 beakers which i assume is 10-10-10-10-11. When reloading and letting beakers go into Mysticism i get 50 which is just 10 per turn. That would suggest that the research bonus does not apply to the stored beakers.

    Edit: I tried with bigger numbers (increased normal research to 20bpt), and i did see the increase. After 4T i had 84 beakers into AG vs 81 when selecting the tech on T0. Removed my original screen shots though because i realized they don't really prove anything on their own.
     
  19. blunderwonder

    blunderwonder Prince

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    Anyhow it would seem you guys are right though,

    i put 5 turns into HBR and it gave 60 beakers on the 5th turn, after meeting all the civs and giving them HBR, it gave me 72, and with +9 science, gave me 14 beakers a turn, but i was probably already getting 11 a turn before meeting them. It doenst make much difference though :( I may start delaying my techs though if only to save a few hundred beakers over the course of the game..


    @izzul, by the way, i wasnt being difficult lol, but sometimes that stuff can be coincidental is all :p maybe the other 4 civs in your game learned ag while you were meeting 2 civs :p you're right though, and someone might think about fixing that war academy article, thought it may have been for a previous patch or for vanilla idk, im sure ive read all that stuff before though about getting the bonus even if you havnt met them yet.
     
  20. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    At best it is worth 1 turn over the first five turns? Although more time to decide first tech could be useful.
     

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