How to Outresearch AI on Higher Levels (Monarch and Above)

[mutax2003]

Just a general question, anyone know what kind of research & production bonus AI gets in monarch and emperor level? Last game I played I was behind 5-6 techs, build purely observatory/university/research lab, and had to spend massively on science (80%) just to be catch up for the space race. Anyone has experience outresearching AI on those level, if so, how did you do it?

Mutax2003

Note: Tech Stealing Cheat - Sue for peace, and select all of AI's tech, then select "let's bury the hatchet...". A popup window comes up, click ok to that, then go back and click accept and get those free techs.

 

[Shillen]

Build cottages all over and build them early. Research techs the AI doesn't have and trade them around to 2-3 different AI's so you get two to three times the value of it. Unlike civ3 the tech doesn't devalue depending on how many civs know it. Get trade routes going early. If you have to road to another civ yourself then do it. Or you might just have to discover the coastline leading to them. Obtain as many happy and health resources as you can. Big cities = big research.

 

[Heroes]

Unlike civ3 the tech doesn't devalue depending on how many civs know it.

No, they do devalue, and no matter you have contact with the civ(s) knowing it or not.

 

[Shillen]

If they do it's very minimal. In civ3 they would be cut down to 1/3 of their value if not less.

edit: Nope, I just tested it out. I trade my tech to one AI and it remains the same value when I trade to the next AI.

 

[basickillr]

What has worked for me, and it varies somewhat depending on how good a start you get...

I research to get a religion, usually polytheism because comps eat up the Budda heh. If I do not get Hindusim, I usually just restart...

I then research one or 2 techs I deem critical... bronze working is always one of them unless I had the rare fortune of getting it from a goody hut, then a tech to take advantage of nearby resources, possible also masonry if I have marbe near.

After that it goes priesthood, writing, alphabet. Once I get alphabet, very often first (meaning no other AI has had a chance to trade anything yet.... see the value), I start clicking from the bottom up in the rankings to trade techs. I can usually get every tech everyone has (most are much cheaper then alphabet so you can get 4 from a single AI often). I always go bottom up when trading techs, and bottom up friends first later in game. This makes the top AI's either have to do their own trades/extortions or research it.

From there I usually go to music for the free great artist, then bounce around a bit but always semi-focused on techs with freebies: physics, liberalism (a free tech!) etc. I often times pop a great prophet early (depending on how much forest around/do I have marble I will chop rush a Stonehenge with a Parthenon shortly after - hence bronze working early), that usually nets me 2 religions and 2 chances to spread the monastaries around plus whatever monastaries the AI religion infects my empire with. If I cant get a free religion, I build my religion's temple to seriously start the spreading if any empires are close.

I will lag sometimes just before/after I do the Music thing, mainly because I am hopefully focusing on taking barabarian cities with 3 or 4 swordsman each and/or making my own and garrisoning them. I can hold my own by going after highly valued techs usually through this period but may fall in the rankings.

As said earlier, build those cottages early, I usually try and get at least 4-5 core cities and all of them will have 3 or 4 cottages minimum if I have space. If your playing a financial empire, even better. Getting enough resources for health and happiness early is critical, if your stopping to build aquas and colloseums (not to mention having to use the happy slider AT ALL) your hamstringing yourself.

Doing the above, I am usually in the top 2-3 techwise most of the game. Sometimes I fall a bit, sometimes things really go my way and I will be first for a long stretch.

This has worked well on emp, on diety heh, not so well... I make it to alphabet first rarely and get alot less for it often. And I will restart often on emp, if your a purist who goes with what you got and no restarts... good luck... resources are KING in this game, much moreso then previously, if you do not get a goodly amount, it is probably a lost cause on any higher level.

 

[Heroes]

If they do it's very minimal. In civ3 they would be cut down to 1/3 of their value if not less.

edit: Nope, I just tested it out. I trade my tech to one AI and it remains the same value when I trade to the next AI.

Well, you are talking about a tech's trade value. It could be that your price cannot change in a turn. But they do devalue in research beakers, according to RB1 SG.

 

[Gufnork]

The best way to outresearch other civs is to have more population. The easiest way to get more population is warfare. On higher difficulties I've found early warfare to be a must.

 

[weimingshi]

For me on emperor the key is grab land and get oracle for alphabete. Gotta use chop strate to pump out enough settler before AI block you in. then research till writing, rush oracle to get alphabete. I build 3 worker to chop trees, got stonehenge, pyramide and oracle built. I never bothered building cottages at start, get pop up fast is key.

 

[kalder]

The easiest way to get more population is warfare. On higher difficulties I've found early warfare to be a must.

"I disagree excellency!"
Particularly in early game, I don't see how a war that significantly increase your population can help you overall growth... excepted for a straight warmonger strat...You'll have to face resistance, maintenance costs for military outside borders, need for culture to prevent flips and expand borders, limitations to tech trading and to commercial routes...Those issues seem to contrast with a substantial science output increase...

If the goal is science, then i think peace is far better, granaries, workers improving with farms along rivers, tech trading with other civs...

 

[Batvanio]

"I disagree excellency!"
Particularly in early game, I don't see how a war that significantly increase your population can help you overall growth... excepted for a straight warmonger strat...You'll have to face resistance, maintenance costs for military outside borders, need for culture to prevent flips and expand borders, limitations to tech trading and to commercial routes...Those issues seem to contrast with a substantial science output increase...

If the goal is science, then i think peace is far better, granaries, workers improving with farms along rivers, tech trading with other civs...

nope. war is really the only solution. what you describe will work on lower levels, but put yourself on emperor and you'll see that other civs research tech like popcorn. The only way I found outsciencing them is to wage war all the way starting with the civs with the most number of cities. You must keep everybody at least three times smaller than you. Trade all the techs available.

Another way is to forbid tech trading at the start of the game which will slow them down - but not much.

 

[Pyramid]

well, I did it @ emperor lvl. First, you must have 6 research cities, which means that 6 cities surrounded by up to ten cottages for each. And, of course it depends on the terrain. You should find a river, at least, a large piece of grass where most of the tiles provide 2 foods. Don't be worry on the production of inferstructure, you can use money to rush the building. When you can research Computer in 3 turn, you will win. (If you build a large empire, national property is a wise choice)

 

[Pyramid]

of coz war is necessary, especially if you can bring a war between two civs. When building the large empire, you can spend only 20% money on the research, and other on the maintance fee of cities, don't be afraid of that. The bad situation won't last long.

 

[Shillen]

War is not necessary. I started on my own island in my monarch game. Got about 8-9 cities on my island (standard sized map). I did wage a war with cavalry/riflemen on another continent but it was largely unsuccessful. I captured two cities which were completely submerged in the enemies culture so they were useless cities. But I still won via space race and was far ahead of the AI in tech at the end of the game.

 

[Pentium]

of coz war is necessary,

Hm, it was said for Civ3 Deity/Sid too. But it wasn't completely true ...

 

[Kolson]

War might not be necessary on Monarch level, but it is on difficult levels. You just cannot build enough cities without having to take some over. And if you were on your own island with enough land to put 8-9 cities on it on a standard sized map, that game was probable more of a fluke than anything else.

 

[vmxa]

Just a general question, anyone know what kind of research & production bonus AI gets in monarch and emperor level? Last game I played I was behind 5-6 techs, build purely observatory/university/research lab, and had to spend massively on science (80%) just to be catch up for the space race.

You can find the handicaps in the XML files

\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4HandicapInfo.xml

 

[Shillen]

War might not be necessary on Monarch level, but it is on difficult levels. You just cannot build enough cities without having to take some over. And if you were on your own island with enough land to put 8-9 cities on it on a standard sized map, that game was probable more of a fluke than anything else.

Eh? 8-9 is not a lot of cities on a standard map. I'm pretty sure two of the AI's had more land/cities than I did but I'd have to check the save when I'm at home.

 

[Bezhukov]

On emperor and above, war is indeed necessary, but not so much to expand your own resources as to distract the AI. Just finished a very frustrating game where not a shot was fired in the entire world - world peace the whole game (first time I've seen that in the civ series). Somehow the AI convinced itself that I was the tech leader, so even my friends wouldn't trade with me, while the other four civs on my continent formed their own research co-op and ran away from me (despite three-turn research on my part!).

Mansa finished Apollo in 1675!



I did manage to come within 50 votes of a diplo win before Mansa launched in the mid-1800's. I considered a nuclear takeout, but by that time three other cvis were close to launching too, and I was still at least 20 turns away from a launch myself. I had erroneousy avoided war because I had managed to be the first to astronomy which allowed me to settle/conquer my own private barb continent which came online just about the time the game was beyond recovery.

Basically, the AI spams commerce improvements (cottages and windmills), so if you don't disrupt it, primarily via pillaging but also causing mil civics/production, it is very difficult to outpace singlehandedly.

 

[Shillen]

Mansa finished Apollo in 1675!

I honestly think Mansa Musa has cheat codes. Every single time I learn a tech he always has it, even though he didn't have it the turn before I learned it. I think he automatically gets any tech that any other civ has. No, I'm not serious, but it certainly seems like it. If he's in your game it's like moving the difficulty up a notch. I wouldn't hesitate to wipe mansa out early in any game I find him in because he's such a tech whore.

 

[walkerjks]

You don't necessarily have to outresearch the AI or wage offensive war to win on Monarch and Emperor. Played right, you can get a cultural victory while getting outresearched. You jsut have to research the right stuff and ignore what you don't need.