1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

How to play this start ? (seafood galore)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Percy, Aug 17, 2007.

  1. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    556
    Location:
    France
    This is the start i drew on Prince, Hemispheres, Standard, Epic, Random Leader (got Mehmed of the Ottomans, who's Expansive and Organized).



    What should i do with that ? Usually, i tend to very, very, very badly manage seafood, in that i build way too many boats, which slow me down considerably.

    One method i used to do is to grow to 2 while researching slavery, so that i can whip the boats quickly, but i'm unsure as to how efficient this is...

    So, what would you guys do ?
     
  2. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    6,954
    Location:
    New York City
    I would move the settle one spot NE so you are on the western shore of the lake. You propably do not need 6 food sources, the 4 are enough. Pigs and the outer fish will only produce a total of 1 commerce. The western lake shors gets you 4 minable hills compared to what you are on, plus access to fresh water. You are organize so you can get fast lighthouses up to improve the seasfood yield.
     
  3. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    6,923
    Location:
    Norway
    Thats a perfect GP farm. don't move the settler. That said You don't actually have any production. That said mehemed start with wheel and ag probably the worst techs possible for this start. Growing to size 2 while reaserching fishing -> mining -> BW . hence starting with a warrior. Use the lake or th clams to speed up reaserch while building a worker then start chopping/whipping out workboats and eventually get out a settler(either size 4 with like 2 workboats and whip 2 pop or size 2 and a couple chops with like one workboat). The point about coastal starts like this is you need to not lose the goal of getting the settler out there to expand and instead focusing on just one city.
     
  4. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    556
    Location:
    France
    Thanks for the advice, keep them coming =)
     
  5. petey

    petey Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2002
    Messages:
    569
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    It's an amazing GP city and you'll be able to whip everything early on, so you don't really need to worry about production. Put Moai Statues in there, too, and you will have some decent hammers, even if it'll never be a powerhouse.

    You don't really need more than one workboat early on, so I'd say go warrior - work boat - worker - settler.
     
  6. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    556
    Location:
    France
    I'd rather build Moai in a powerhouse.
    Anyway, if i were to follow your BO (which is somewhat along the lines of what i was leaning towards), should i go warrior-workboat the moment i get the tech, then finish the warrior later, or first finish the warrior ?
    Once i'm size 2, should i keep growing or build the boat asap using hammers tiles ? What would your research order be ?
     
  7. Strategos

    Strategos Autokrator

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2001
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Southern California
    Its a good start with practically no infrastructure needed. I'd build a workboat, warrior (move to new city site), settler, warrior, oracle/stonehenge, warrior, settler, etc. Keep expanding til you hit like four cities. Build some workers too for your other cities.

    As for the destiny of your capital. Good GP farm in the beginning with plenty of production (as long as your pop is high). Don't chop the trees! IMO, best to keep them, lumbermill them with replaceable parts, and then, if you want a super specialist city, build the national park in the capital (along with national epic), convert lumbermills to forest preserves, and reap a ton of extra specialists.

    Alternatively, it could just be a production city. Keep slavery on, whip whatever you need (you've got the food), and be ready to lumbermill and railroad the minute that you can.

    I love starts like this. But I wonder if the surrounding area is crap to make up for the cool start, lol.
     
  8. Snaaty

    Snaaty Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,057
    Well, I tend to grow my capital first and go settler spamming a littel later. So I would build:

    warrior (reserach fishing) workboat, workboat... ...workboat (until you work all the seafood). Research mining, bronze, hunting, archery to have some defences and then go settler spamming:

    settler + worker + archer (whipped) (with so many seafood, you should produce a settler every 6-7 turns then, a worker every 3-4 turns, so this is just enough time to grow back to happy cap to whip another archer)
     
  9. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    556
    Location:
    France
    Snaaty:

    Won't waiting for the 5 boats put me very late compared to other civs?
    What size should my city be at the start of a Settler/Worker/Archer cycle? 5 so i can work the food? Should i whip during the Archer or use this time to regrow it?
    Do i stop building the warrior the moment i have fishing? Do i whip the boats when BW comes online?

    Thanks =P
     
  10. Strategos

    Strategos Autokrator

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2001
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Southern California
    To be perfectly honest, I NEVER build a warrior first. I've never been attacked in the early stages. Even if I don't have fishing and I've got nothing for a worker to improve, I'll start building a warrior, and then when fishing pops (usually my first research priority for a coastal site like that), I immediately switch to a workboat. My rationale is that I don't want to delay that extra growth/production potential for a single turn. For me, inefficient play in the very early game = death. Well that or me just getting mad at myself for neglecting to do something useful.

    MP would of course be different. And maybe higher difficulty levels. I've never played high enough though to be attacked by an AI civ within the first few turns. Barbs are another story, but I think even on prince you're good for some time. My advice: at least one improved plot first, then diverge from there.
     
  11. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2003
    Messages:
    5,251
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hidden Underground Volcano Lair
    I would reload. A start like that means you have an enemy capitol with in 10 tile of yours. So unless you want to do an axe rush or a sword rush. Reload.
     
  12. petey

    petey Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2002
    Messages:
    569
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    If it's a powerhouse, it probably doesn't need Moai. It would make the powerhouse slightly better, but personally, I prefer to have it in a hammer poor city. The average powerhouse city doesn't have all that many water tiles anyways (which is why it's a powerhouse), so you can give a couple extra hammers to a city that already has a whole lot, or you can make a city with weak production become more productive member of your civ and not have to sacrifice quite so much population on your whips.

    I'd finish the warrior first and then build the workboat. You're not really going to need the guy for defense that early, but it helps to have double the number of guys out scouting the terrain for the next cities and fighting animals to get the woodsman promotions before the barbarian archers start showing up.

    For research order, I'd go fishing - bronze working - animal husbandry.
     
  13. Snaaty

    Snaaty Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,057
    @ Stragtegos:

    Sorry, my post hasn´t been precise enought... ...of course you switch immediately to the workboats, when you have fishing (only finish the warrior, when your happy cap demands it)

    ...

    @ Percy:

    I have done something similar here: Story & Tales (Post 16). Forget about the workers I built, because you dont need them (nothing to do and more seefood), but basically, you can have the 5 boats around 2500 BC (1 worker = 1 workboat).

    (Post 22) second city up and running around 2100 BC, so workboats don´t really slow down (in my game I even have build a lighthouse too increase food some more before producing settler 3 - x)...
     
  14. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    556
    Location:
    France
    Here are the two main reasons why i said that:
    - if i'm going to use the city as a GP farm, i won't use many tiles, hence i'll lose some of the benefits of the Statues
    - if i put it in a city dedicated to production, i'll have built the correct infrastructure to take advantage of it to the best.

    Of course, maybe my reasons are bad, after all, i'm not pretending i'm any good ;)

    And thanks for the build and research orders =)

    EDIT: thanks, Snaaty =)
     
  15. petey

    petey Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2002
    Messages:
    569
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    If you're going to use this city as a GP Farm, then five of the tiles that you are going to be using will be the seafood ones, so you'll always be getting the production from those ones. You still need to build things in your GP city and as it's low production, that means whipping. IIRC, one population gets whipped into 30 hammers - that means every six turns that you have Moai Statues in your city, that's one less point of population you need to whip to get the same results and that population point can be retained as a specialist, as well as less whipping meaning less unhappiness meaning more specialists.

    For your production city, you're not going to get the same seafood as you have here. You may have one in that city, so that's one hammer/turn that you're gaining. The rest of your population is going to be working the farms and mines, so you won't even be using the ocean tiles until much later in the game when you can support the greater population.

    I think it's better to build the Moai early and have this city help produce for the whole game rather than build it late and get a marginal improvement in an already productive city for a much shorter period.
     
  16. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    556
    Location:
    France
    I can see your point, and i am not convinced my approach is better. I think it would be interesting to discuss it in a specific thread, because there might be a lot to be learnt from that. Do you feel like starting one by presenting your arguments ?

    In any case, i'm still waiting for input from others (and from the ones who already gave some, thanks again guys!).
     
  17. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    556
    Location:
    France
    Turns out i was indeed 10 tiles from a capital.
    Shaka's.
    In between, a LOT of floodplains, with some Gold, Rice, Cows, Horses, Copper.
    I stole a worker early, but then i didn't understand how he could tech so fast... He had Iron Working so early, i simply don't get it.
     
  18. kniteowl

    kniteowl Pirate Captain :P

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,269
    Location:
    NZ
    Maybe he beelined to military techs like Iron working because you declared war and stole his worker, I'd do the same thing too, I'm assuming you're playing BTS.

    That's A GP farm you have there looks like you'll have to move you're Capital, Too bad you can't move you're palace until you build 4 courthouses.
     
  19. axident

    axident Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,066
    This is a strong start and perhaps a HE/WP city in the future once you move your palace to some cottage-able area. The capital can spam settlers and workers after it builds up some seafood capacity. I had a similar start in an Emperor game, though I was Dutch so that helped a lot as I had fishing and eventually dikes.
     
  20. CivScientist

    CivScientist Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    125
    Consider going for the great lighthouse in the not to distant future. You don't have to build it in your capital. Build most of your cities along the coast for the trade and try to make them large. Then build yourself a trade empire and reap the riches of an early commerce advantage due to your great trade.
     

Share This Page