How to Properly use Calvary and Skirmishers?

[Jiggly]

So in all the time ive played Civilization, I tend to avoid cavalry and skirmisher type units unless its specifically the Civs unique unit. Whenever I build them I feel like they are never quite worth it vs basic melee units. I feel like they get bogged down in bad terrain and rivers too easily and considering theres rarely any massive open plain areas to traverse I feel like their movement speed rarely comes in that handy. And in the late game it feels like every single space in the map is taken up so even here they lose their flanking ability.

Can anyone teach me the proper ways to use these units? Early and late game. Thanks!

 

[Stalker0]

So just one note, there have been some bugs lately with the skirmisher promotion in the latest version, so the units are currently underperforming.

So generally I use Skirmishers in two main ways:

1) Rough Terrain: So the reason Skirmishers get a big penalty in Rough Terrain, is because they were completely OP before we put that in. Even with the penalty, the ability to move into a piece of rough terrain, attack, and then move back...is incredibly powerful. Done correctly, the only units that can even hit you are other skirmishers and mounted units.... otherwise you are often invincible from melee and ranged units.

2) Open Field: Skirmishers are good units to soften up things in the open terrain, as they do some good damage here. Often I will combine them with Charge Horses... use a skirmisher to soften up the unit, and then send in the Charge unit who can get their big bonus.

They are also good in teams of 3, they can cycle around each other and focus attacks on a single target, taking it out.

3) Mobile Hospitals

Skirmishers are good units to put Medic on, as they can move quickly wherever you need healing.

 

[andersw]

Skirmishers need room to maneuvre, the worst thing is if you get stuck somewhere in danger in rough terrain.
So it depends on the nearby landscape.
I sometimes used a bunch of "ignore zone of control"-skirmishers (forgot what the upgrade is called) however, after the exp bug fixed its not as easy/fast to get anymore.

I agree with cav, they have a window if you go early chivalry and its useful to cover flanks with, but tercio usually does the job for me and I want cannons anyway.
They are really good on lower difficulties and maybe you can do something with them as high as king if you surprise the AI, but emperor+ they dont have enough defense.
They arent bad its just that non fortified (cav cant fortify) units tend to get smashed by my AI's on higher difficulties.

 

[DaniSciB]

Ahhh!, you want to master "The Way of the Horse"...

Well, to start and generally speaking they are support troops, they aren't good enough to tank, nor cities, nor many attacks, and also they are terrible at siege, they exist for the purpose of breaking enemy lines and kill Siege, Ranged units and wounded troops. They can be very Useful in a offensive war, can give you lots of advantage if the war is being developed on neutral lands, and they are really good helping in defense.

Now, there are many ways to use them but you have to note, they are good in Open terrain, where they have sight, mobility and the enemy doesn't have defensive bonuses.

Melee:

Early on they are great to distract enemy units, try to make them worry about your horses pillaging tiles or killing a bad placed unit. The Horseman is not that great, but is enough to be a big menace... Ever had to defend a Barbarian Horseman early on?... Well, it is hard and annoying as fck. Be like the barbarian!

The Knight is where the party start. The massive boost to strength is enough to break enemy lines without worrying too much for a while, as they should be treated as support troops you should have your main army near and ready to advance. You can kill wounded melee units, or erase any ranged unit that remained in a bad position when you killed the troops that were protecting them.

You need to learn to count your movements, Attacking in open terrain cost 1 movement. Rough terrain 2 movement. Rough terrain + Forest or Jungle 3 movement (Need confirmation about this...). Over river and forget about retreating... Be careful and keep your eyes open.

You should not let your horses to be surrounded in range of too many attacks, they are strong, but they are no God. If you don't want to lose them don't kill that trebuchet standing just outside of that city guarded by 3 pikemen and 2 compos + the City Castle.

Melee Horses work very good in teams, Flanking bonuses make them stronger, so does the against wounded units bonuses, they also become harder to kill. Think about them as Assassins.

UUs like Conquistadores, Cataphracts, Panzers and Mandekalu become part of your main army for a long time. You can use them with more liberty since they are incredibly strong, enough to take cities.

Later on with Tanks, it is similar, they are very tough, very mobile also, their main mission doesn't change at all.

Always try to have Medics near so they can heal faster. The main issue with them is that usually they kill, but need a lot of time to heal and attack again.

Ranged:

Skirmishers are IMO the best troop to weaken enemy lines, they can kill troops, of course, but they can also weaken the enemies so your knights or Spearmen can Kill or advance.

Specially good against melee troops, since you don't want to attack Pikemen with your Pikemen or Knights in a normal situation.

They are almost useless if the terrain is very rough too hard and risky to use... Unless your name is Genghis Khan.

I personally don't use them later on, just on defense... To be honest the skirmishers are very hard to use properly on enemy lands, at least for me. The melee horse too since if you make "the kill" on enemy lands they will be attacked a lot. So, IMO Cavalry is good to use particularly on neutral terrain and your own terrain, where you can flank your enemy without major problems and the AI will have a bad time protecting their backlines, making them a great troop for defense and a very reliable support troop if the terrain is good.

 

[TaylorItaly]

When at war with an Nation i often use horses to go deep in enemy land and pillage strategic and luxury resources.
When a player don`t have iron through my actions , his swordmen could not heal.
To be sucsessfull with this tactic , you must first go in wide distance to the enemy and reach their land from the side or the back , not in the fronline....
2*3 or 3*3 groups are ideal , with the right promotions, e,g. 2 medics in one group.

 

[ShadedSkies]

Generic horse units are pretty bad, yes. Use Scouts for harassment and Spear/Swordsmen for war. Songhai and Spain UU's can roll over anything in their path though.

 

[Mikeality]

A good use for skirmishers I like to do is make highly mobile medics. They can help soften up the front line a bit (and you'll have to use them to some degree to get them promoted) but primarily I'll have them move to injured units quickly. Without them, injured units need to take several turns to return to my territory to heal or heal slowly, but now they only need to be pulled back a short distance and can start healing right away. But I agree with a lot of your points and rarely use mounted units.

 

[ICanHasName?]

Knights can kill a unit then escape in a situation where melee will kill a unit then die. Attack then fall back to your medic scout to heal more effectively next turn. Attack then retreat and finish off the wounded unit with bows. Pilliage everything. The idea is to come out ahead through attrition over time.

Use horseman to gain experience for knights.

I have never really used skirmishers. They seem kindof limited and risky relative to bows and catapult lines.

 

[andersw]

I have never really used skirmishers. They seem kindof limited and risky relative to bows and catapult lines.

They're not bad to help defend coasts when archers would maybe stand in a vulnerable position and you can have several swap position target the same unit.
And while their use is a bit limited with roads its usually fast enough to reroute them where needed.
If you go parthian tactics, ie upper instead of lower logistics route you're more likely to get use of them.

 

[azum4roll]

They're not bad to help defend coasts

Nah, AI is so smart they never place their ships against the coast unless they're attacking a city. And if they do they pick a rough terrain spot without roads.

 

[andersw]

Nah, AI is so smart they never place their ships against the coast unless they're attacking a city. And if they do they pick a rough terrain spot without roads.

Let me rephrase that, they are good to defend around coastal cities you've recently taken by AI.
Around there the AI are a lot more agressive and tends to throw away ships near shore, not as much as they used to be but enough to warrant a few skirmishers there.

Edit: but yes in my recent game that was about what use I had of them, I was really struggling to see use of them, mostly used with helping defending newly taken cities from AI trying to poke in with backstabs.

 

[Stalker0]

Nah, AI is so smart they never place their ships against the coast unless they're attacking a city. And if they do they pick a rough terrain spot without roads.

Yes, but in order to attack a city the AI will frequently have 2-3 ships lingering right next to the city. With a good road network it is trivial to have 4-5 skirmishers attack the same ship and knock it out. Usually I can just use the city space if its not on a hill.

Skirmishers take out melee naval faster than any other land force, except maybe heavy artillery groups since you can have so many of them at that point.

This btw is also why blitz is actually a stronger anti-city promotion than Vanguard is. Blitz allows you to attack once and withdraw away from all of the counter fire, while a vanguard ship has to eat all of it. It doesn't matter if the city doesn't do much damage to your ship if the skirmishers behind it snipe you down.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

I'll often build a network of roads near my border(s) and then rotate 3 or more skirmishers against hostile forces, quickly raking in experience and yields from kills. That's why I think mounted ranged units are underrated on this forum, they can wreak havoc defensively and, once you've promoted them enough, offensively as well.

 

[andersw]

I'll often build a network of roads near my border(s) and then rotate 3 or more skirmishers against hostile forces, quickly raking in experience and yields from kills. That's why I think mounted ranged units are underrated on this forum, they can wreak havoc defensively and, once you've promoted them enough, offensively as well.

That is how I try to use them but they mostly gets patrol duty around the edges, the front tends to be too clogged and replacement melee or siege have prio.
But yes with enough roads they are fine, I like them better when defending an invasion because the road network is if not already there atleast in construction.