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[R&F] How to quick SV, share your view.

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Ziel, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. whacker

    whacker Chieftain

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    I just finished my first SV on deity by t188.

    As i wanted to try the new loyalty mechanics and some other stuff i decided to play a peaceful game as china. (still managed to fail to get the pyramids :D). No Dlcs except Nubia used. Decent map, i went for stonehenge religion, because i also haven`t played the game with the patch that changed religion. ( Religion: each new city gets the religion, jesuit education + harvest pantheon). With 3 golden ages in a row i faithbought most of the workers and also some settler + all universities, traders and even some labs. Had 5 alliances for most of the game, no offensive war but i had to defend vs nubia 2 times and i also got 2 city states + 2 regular cities from shaka due to loyalty pressure. Several random wonders just because i could :)

    Many things i did were not optimal from the start because i wanted to get a grasp on add on gameplay, i still loved the way the early game plays without warmongerin.

    I found a really nice place for a single spaceport with lots of chops, cultural alliance made founding a city there possible. Sadly there was a huge barbarian army, even destroying one of americas cities. I ahd to build several tanks to deal with them and lost quite some turns. Without those barbs, finishing time would have been ~t.180.

    Things i noticed:
    -chopping is even more powerful now with these golden age boni and magnus
    -magnus is broken
    -other governors are almost useless, +1 builder charge for a faithbuy builder city and reyna very late in the game for the spaceport are decent.
    - 10 pop and 3+ adjacencyis important now cause new rationalism.
    -governor hopping is strong but very tedious.
    -without a good tundra spot for the spaceport i think a 3 spaceport should be best, i did not find gold to be a problem, i wasted so much gold on stupid stuff
    - the AI killing all cities state thoughout the whole game is just stupid. Spain conquered Buenos Aires in t180, after he spent the whole game doing nothing but waging war against them....in the ende 4 city states survived and that includes liberating Nan Madol after an event ...sadly you can not free CS after you gained them be loyalty pressure.

    Now i`m really curious what the first warmongering results are going to bring, i actually expect a less bloodythirsty approach than in vanilla (although not completely peaceful) to be much more viable in RF.

    Ending save is attached.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
    civtrader6 and Boyan_Sun like this.
  2. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Chieftain

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    I think Kilwa + 2 scientific CS may help a lot? ;)
     
  3. whacker

    whacker Chieftain

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    I just finished my first warmonger game, t174 deity SV as Monte.

    I still made many mistakes and stopped conquering too soon, also the map was really bad and i had mapuche to conquer while i was in a golden age....

    Nevertheless, i again got a nice tundra spot for chopping SV in 2 turns. Aztecs don`t need to buy the spaceport, so i used the gold to buy some research labs. Science was quite a bottleneck, i`m still not used to missing out on all these Scientists.

    God of the harvest with monumentality seems to be the thing to go for, i actually think it is too strong, although the gameplay with almost unlimited builders is much more fun in my oppinion.

    Normal age - golden - golden.

    Kilwa is superstrong if you have 2 science CS, which i had. Sadly one of the AI`s had Amani with max promotions in Babylon so i lost it and never got it back. I will promote Amani to max from now on, the Kilwa Bonus is just too powerful to lose it.

    I completely neglected culture, only some monuments and stayed in merch republic until the end. I think democracy is still strong, but culture just can`t keep up with science and it is not mandatory anymore.

    There still is a lot to be learned :)
     

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    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
    Victoria likes this.
  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Is it really worth it? It may be another CH fallacy, I played my first game with harvest and just ended up with too many builders, you do not get enough to buy many GP and with conquering you can get enough faith for buying those builders and settlers.

    I am still struggling over Warlord´s throne, it seems you have already taken a lot before it comes up.

    I found I just did not need Moksha or Victor. Some of the other promo’s seem of better value, Liang Infrastructure promo for government buildings is handy at the end when you need the Royal society fast because you had slow culture. Pingala’s 20% science buildings is handy from the start, I moved him around as much as Magnus. Reyna sits in a big fat city as a gold hog... you can get coastal cities very big fast with a couple of fisheries and a lighthouse.

    Amani before Magnus at the start... usually?

    Culture does seem to be a bit of a killer and that’s why I am thinking the culture pantheons got a little stronger.
     
  5. whacker

    whacker Chieftain

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    It is worth with Aztec for sure, need more testing with other civs though.

    Amani 1. is good to get a golden age if you manage to suzerain 2-3 CS for the first time, if you can`t do this i would actually pick pingala 1., not sure about that though.
     
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I am more meaning you are not getting any faith bonus or did not find the culture CS first then the +2 early can be useful from Amani.
    The extra science from Pingala early is rubbishly small ... 20% of 2 or 4 is not a lot. I would be more tempted by Liang which I started with a few times as its an extra builder charge.

    So low early culture/science and a cuilture science CS nearby I cannot get a quest from, Amani is pretty handy followed by Magnus.
    Otherwise Liang Magnus for an extra double chop is pretty tempting for snowball.

    Is the benefit to gamespeed that good? Try without it, you probably get enough?
     
  7. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Chieftain

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    Maybe you can try to combine that satellite-globalization method? Spamming theaters can significantly speed up the culture progress. Several days ago @Rogue-star had won a peaceful SV in T178, no harvest god, no monumentality, no Kilwa. Just the satellite-globalization, with 0 science CS, 1 culture CS(not Kumasi).
    I just finished another peaceful deity SV game, with both the harvest-monument and Kilwa+2 science CS(include Jeneva), then combined the satellite-globalization. Although it sounds like a lot of luck, I am not an experienced player, so I only can fly my spaceships at T177. I'm sure you experienced players will reach a higher level.
    But I fear that Magnus will be nerfed very soon.;)

    Update: with my map, @Rogue-star won peaceful SV at T158.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  8. whacker

    whacker Chieftain

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    Yes that`s probaly right if i think about it. :) (@Victoria)
     
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Can you just run me through exactly what happens again? The turn you launch the moon you chop like crazy science projects?... does the overflow risk being lost?

    In GOTM when I lost Kwila on the last turn and then went and captured it I have 2 Science CS and Two cuilture... OMG . That may be nerfed also, pretty much on the same level as Magnus
     
  10. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Chieftain

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    Yes that is it. You just chop science project,
    and you will find your SPT grow rapidly. Then CHOP(or royal society builder) to finish moon landing. Though it lasts only 1t, the moon landing will immedietely give you that 10 times culture. Then be careful, not to trigger any inspirations! :)
     
  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Its this that worries me
     
  12. Eyswein

    Eyswein Chieftain

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    What's the bad that happens when you trigger an inspiration during this?
     
  13. whacker

    whacker Chieftain

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    You lose science and culture overflow when triggering heurekas/inspirations. That is an incredibly important mechanic when aiming at fast finishing times as it applies to any overflow after finishing a tech/civic.
     
  14. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Chieftain

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    If you focus on culture it will be different, you can still build only one spaceport with 5~7 trees around. In the new version, because lack of the late GPs, the techs are done slowly one by one, not in parallel in vanilla. So you can just use the Royal Society to sacrifice builders every turn. With the +30% from the science governor and +15% from Integrated Space Cell policy (If you're lucky, add Hong Kong), 1 builder with 6 charges provides 1/4 project progress, it can be at the same time as the late techs completing one after another, it won't slow you down. Only when you once finish the last project tech, you chop with Magnus at last to immediately win. My 177SV built 3 spaceports (Democracy at T157 and Royal Society at T167), but Rogue-star only built one, for he finish Democracy at T145, and chop to finish the Royal Society at the same turn (he reserved the trees for the level-3 government building).

    Just to make it more clear: the science of instant sources leads to the loss of previous science overflow, the culture of instant sources leads to the loss of previous culture overflow. They don't cross, which means you won't lose culture overflow when you finish a civic that can trigger an eureka. This is actually very interesting, to know that the completion of a civic can only trigger eureka, and the completion of a technology can only trigger inspiration, which will not lead to loss overflow. I don't know if it's intentional. However, for satellite-globalization we can just make sure that we don't trigger any inspirations after moon-landing, and for eurekas you can still trigger at will.

    Here I attach my T22 save (very good luck to get a relic so you can choose Gods of Harvest, which was called "an amazing start"), and Rogue-star's T158 SV save. Original link: https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5557680251
     

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    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
    Victoria likes this.
  15. pahakuutti

    pahakuutti Chieftain

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    Using the satellite-globalization method, I got nice T151 victory as a Monty (deity).
    Otherwise, it was the usual warmongering game.

    I was really struggling with the new rationalism. I Found it very hard to meet both the adjacency and population requirements. About half of my cities didn't meet both of the conditions. Next time I need to plan better where to plant those cities. Now, I just popped cities without really thinking can it grow to pop 10.

    Also, found it very hard and annoying to control tech/culture overflows. One has to be very careful when triggering boosts. I.e. never get a boost when a tech has been completed, otherwise the boost will do you more harm than good (you'll probably loose more science than the boost will gain).

    Anyways, briefly the end-game strategy

    1. Went with 2 x spaceports. First spaceport is for chopping Earth satellite and Moon Landing.
    2. With the culture provided by Moon Landing you should get democracy and globalization.
    3. Chop Royal Society (make sure to save enough trees/stone in your gov. plaza city. 2 x trees + stone is more than enough)
    4. Complete rest of the tech tree. Now every tech shouldn't take more than a turn with the help of international space agency -card. Yes, you need to be suzerain of a few city-states (liberate few while you clear your continent).
    5. Use builder charges to complete space projects until you have researched all the space project techs. Then chop the rest.

    In case anyone wants to try out this map, I have attached both the start and end saves.
    I'm sure with this map some of the better players can get a sub-140T victory.
     

    Attached Files:

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  16. whacker

    whacker Chieftain

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    t151, very impressive! I´m still struggling to find the best way to play quick SV in RnF, but it seems the standard "conquer the whole world" is still superior to playing more peacufully.

    I don`t have the australia DLC, did you build any theater districts or commercial hubs? Pantheon?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  17. EpicWestern

    EpicWestern Chieftain

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    Main thing I discovered after watching videos was how tirelessly people trade their resources. Its best to even just settle right on the resources so you don't have to waste builder charges to improve them. Then immediately shop around for the best possible deal (use trial and error to get the best price), just get pure gold and buy more settlers and find more resources to improve. Honestly feels like you're getting at least twice as many settlers early on compared to someone who isn't trading. But the process is a bit tedious for me so I stick to my self-imposed no-trade rule but then again have to grind out my victories for another 100 turns or so.
     
  18. pahakuutti

    pahakuutti Chieftain

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    Built quite many theater districts, around 8 or so. Recruited a bunch of writers - not the first ones thought.

    Also built many com hubs, but at some point I realized that I don't actually need so much gold. Ended up having about 20 trade route slots, but didn't built traders for all of them.

    All the good ones were taken. So, picked Divine Spark.
     
  19. whacker

    whacker Chieftain

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    Yea, i also think theater districts are better now than commercial hubs. I just played a game as russia, selling 3 works of great art around t110 for 1000 gold, 230gpt and all their excess luxuries to 3 AIs that did not even like me. I`m actually not aware if that was the case in vanilla as well, but it solves any gold problems. In combination with workers for faith and the need of only 14k gold in the late game instead of 40-50k, traders seem a bit outdated. And that is just on top of having a much stronger culture game.
     
  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Monty is fast, no doubt about it. I think civtrader did it in a similar time.
    It does seem like globalisation is the new way. Someone on the Chinese forum did a peaceful deity in 158 turns.
    So much depends on map. If you can get harvest and classical golden you are away, just buy settler after settler, current game I have even chopped in the oracle to see how that goes with Pingala, a Free settler or two with every wonder.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018

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