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How to rush Petra on Immortal on desert starts?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by revelation216, Jul 26, 2014.

  1. revelation216

    revelation216 NQ Civilopedian

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    Playing as Shaka on Huge Pangaea EPIC SPEED, 12 civs, 24 CSs! Using InfoAddict, Unlimited XP from Barbs and Enhanced UI mods.

    Personally I don't mind the desert start. Unfortunately last time I got one, i was second to get a pantheon and the only pantheon I wanted was gone, Desert Folklore, and with no abundance of any particular type of resource around I went with
    +1:c5culture: to Shrines and Temples and decided I would get to Currency ASAP. The AI completed Petra while I still had 10 turns of Currency to go :(
     
  2. TheGrumpyBuddha

    TheGrumpyBuddha King

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    Maybe ... don't? You say it all in your last line. If you want to make this work, you need to somehow get your science going faster (early caravans to AIs?) but on Immortal and going up against 11 AIs and with freakin' Shaka, seems a huge stretch.
     
  3. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    That basically is the best you can do for getting Petra, but on Immortal it's not always good enough given the AI handicaps. In fact being beat out to desert faith right there meant you had strong competition.
     
  4. dragonxxx

    dragonxxx King

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    Did you expect something else ? After someone takes DF first, its quite obvious, that your chances getting Petra are insignificant. And by beelining Petra, you are delaying NC, and that in the long run is worse than not having Petra. Petra is awesome if you have a lot of rivered hills, otherway its boost is rather insignificant, as plain desert is always bad (with or without petra) and petra doesn't affect flood plains desert.
     
  5. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    You have to rely on luck to get what you want here. The odds seem so small to build Petra yourself. If you want Petra why not make a dow for it? I once conquered prora when the ai built it first. I really needed it, too.
     
  6. Uzael36

    Uzael36 Prince

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    I've had pretty good success getting Petra on Immortal, but on a Standard speed game, you do need to have it built by turn 85 for a high chance of getting it, and definitely done by 90 for any real chance. It is a bit tricky to do, but it is still important to build tall, but when I go for it, I will build the NC after 2 cities, and usually have to buy the library in that 2nd city. The NC needs to be built by turn 70ish (standard speed). My 2nd city will build my 3rd settler while my capital is building the NC.
     
  7. Don Matt

    Don Matt Chieftain

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    I find that on Immortal there is no way to guarantee anything specific. I play on huge maps with 12 AI's as well and... I tend to commit myself to founding a religion - but recognize that I need to be ready to accept religious tenants other than my favorites... If, as in your case, I can't get Desert Folklore, I look at several otehrs: Sacred Waters complements a wide empire well if you have some rivers and flook plains... Fertility Rites works well with any landscape... Messenger of the Gods is worthwhile if you like to develop your land well.... Etc. The same goes for any wonders - The AI starts out ahead and I generally (playing wide) don't truly catch up in population or science until about the year 1000 AD... In other words, getting Petra will be tough. I'd rather focus on strenghthening my economy as a whole, build my population, settle cities and get a couple of *national* wonders (National College especially). These are things I can control that will help me to take control later.

    If you *really* want Petra, you could focus from turn one on getting through the liberty try and taking a great engineer with the finisher...
     
  8. Gustavus Rex

    Gustavus Rex Prince

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    I play on standard. This is my tricks for getting Petra.

    Tradition is ok but the extra hammer from liberty is imo better. Also you can get another city up while focus on growing your capital. I always start liberty when going for Petra. Grow the city and build library asap - beline currency with possible dip in lux-tech you might need. Mining is good to have to get hammers for the Petra build later.

    If possible (pangea) - find everybody and get embassies to take a sneek peek on who might go for Petra. Make someone dow him/her or do it yourself.

    When it's time, work as many hammers as possible, chop forest if got any. Sometimes it's better to grow an extra pop before hammerfocus though.
     
  9. Redaxe

    Redaxe Emperor

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    Is there any chance that rushing the Liberty tree for the Engineer could get you this?

    I tend to think not, Liberty is a difficult tree to fill quickly without getting a lot of luck with bonuses to culture.
     
  10. Gustavus Rex

    Gustavus Rex Prince

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    There is, with good enough culture + oracle Liberty should be finished about turn 70ish.. On Immortal Petra goes around 80-100.

    Another was is to build Stonehenge+Pyramids or Temple of Artemis. This way a Engineer can spawn about time.

    All of this is more of a gamble then basic hard build. On the up side you don't slow down NC as much.
     
  11. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    The downside to being beat out this way to Petra is much smaller than the downside to being beat out while in the middle of hand building though. (Unless they finished it the very same turn that you used GE for Petra you can pick another world wonder to use the GE for)

    But this path carries with it some extra drawbacks even upon success:
    1. I hear that it's most common to use Liberty finisher for a Great Prophet either directly or indirectly, so if using for Petra it wouldn't be available for religion.
    2. If this was a start in which you were going to go Tradition, the usual downside even upon success of happiness being more difficult to manage without Monarchy and slower growth especially in capital. (Piety start has same drawback with less benefit)
     
  12. dragonxxx

    dragonxxx King

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    Liberty great person has two good uses: GS to make early academy or GE to get NC. An awesome petra spot might justify it, but using it for a great prophet just doesn't really seem right. If you don't have the FPT to make some sort of useful religion (with religious buildings and stuff) having a religion in your capitol (that you can probably not spread) sounds like a waste to me.
     
  13. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    These are my tips for obtaining Petra on Emperor:
    Research Animal Husbandry and then Sailing, then Education Philosophy then Beeline currency. Send 2 food cargo ships to your Petra city and at least 1 worker. Rush buy the hill tiles and lock down the tiles for maximum production. Start Petra the moment you research currency. It helps to have completed the Tradition tree for the free aqueduct, if you wont complete the Tradition tree research Engineering and rush buy an aqueduct in your Petra city.
     
  14. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Get good capital, get currency fast, pray AI doesn't build it first.

    That's basically it. You can try to evaluate the likelihood of an AI going early Petra by looking at their caps.
     
  15. Gustavus Rex

    Gustavus Rex Prince

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    Hmm. It takes 100+ turns to reach education and by then Petra is often lost on Emperor to. Did you mean Philosophy?
     
  16. revelation216

    revelation216 NQ Civilopedian

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    He has to! There is no way someone has not built Petra by the time Education rolls around.

    Perhaps that could be quite a good challenge: Research Education before you complete Petra.
     
  17. Walter E Kurtz

    Walter E Kurtz Warlord

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    IMO the best way is to skip calendar and philosophy. But an immediate caravan for + bpt and a library are priority over beeline to currency.

    If you go to Philosophy first and actually build the NC, you're too late for Petra. They fall within the same timeline. If you build Petra first, and tech to Philo while building it, you can start NC and finish it in time.

    Of course this requires a good position to begin with, a safe neighbor for a caravan, a hammer rich start, and also no luxuries that require calander. Chop forest and work mines with stolen workers to speed things along.
     
  18. Gustavus Rex

    Gustavus Rex Prince

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    Agreed.

    Build library asap - get caravan going (if close enough and barbs cleared)

    Then just mining before belining to currency. I think thats the fastest way to get Petra done. Liberty is good if you want to expand meanwhile. :)
     
  19. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    Yes, I meant Philosophy :)
     

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