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How to take a city with fighters flying around?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Sogetsu, Nov 4, 2005.

  1. Sogetsu

    Sogetsu Chieftain

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    So this is the scenario:

    AI: Athens, 80% city defense, a stack of 10 mechanized infantry and something like 3 jet fighters intercepting. Next door in Sparta there are 3 more jet fighters intercepting

    Me: Stack of 30 modern armors and 10 stealth bombers

    So I go with the bombers to take out the city defense and obviously their fighters owned me. With luck I manage to take it down to 70%. Then I say no matter, with 30 modern armors I can do anything, right? Wrong. I go in all out and I couldn't even manage to take 1 mech infantry. Then I have to withdraw to Thermopylai with 1/4 the strengh I set out with...

    So then, if apparently I can't engage jets in direct combat, how the hell am I supposed to siege succesfully a city like that? Someone please enlighten me and I shall be forever grateful
     
  2. GenocideBringer

    GenocideBringer King

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    ...Use fighters of your own, maybe?
     
  3. dar

    dar Chieftain

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    Arty & naval bombarbment to knock down defense bonus, arty for stack damage. Just because you have bombers doesn't mean you throw your other options out the window.
     
  4. Aurelius321

    Aurelius321 Warlord

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    Agree with the first two here. This game is all about not having one giant stack of the same units. Mix it up a bit and make sure to throw out some of your jet fighters first so they can kamakazee the enemy fighters (remember each fighter can only intercept once per turn).

    Another way would be to take out one city with artillery attacks and then armour and save your bombers for the second city (that way only 3 fighters screwed with you instead of 6)

    Just some suggestions
     
  5. Pubknight

    Pubknight Chieftain

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    I've found having a carrier or two, or some nearby cities with Jet Fighters really helps.

    Don't even need to attack with the jet fighters, just set them to ntercept... they'll look like they are just doing donuts around your base, but if you watch the event log, they will be picking off enemy jets all the time.
     
  6. Dakhor

    Dakhor Chieftain

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    30 Modern armour? -- Why so many? - All u need is 10...

    I NEVER use any arty or stealth bombers. A waste of time...

    I can easilly take out superior numbers of fully upgraded Mech Inf with modern armours. The key is Collateral dammage.

    Try this - enter world builder. Put 10 mech inf in a +80% def city and upgrade them all to +20% city def + 10% str +25% against armour.

    Then make 10 Modern Armour - 3 promotions of collateral damage wich is 50%.

    Then attack. U wont have any trouble at all taking out the 10 mech info - sure u will loose half ur modern armous- but so what? U dont need to build 30 of them - u dont need to have arty or bombers ( wich is good to have ONLY if u can reduce the modern armour losses WITHOUT getting ur bombers killed )

    /DaK/
     
  7. Sogetsu

    Sogetsu Chieftain

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    Alright I'll be trying all this stuff today, thank you so much for the suggestions
     
  8. Aurelius321

    Aurelius321 Warlord

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    Dakhor, I can summarize your statement above by saying the following.

    30 Modern armour? Why use so many when you can just cheat you way into winning the city by using world builder?
     
  9. Distraction

    Distraction Now 50% less explodie!

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    I'm not sure he meant cheating. I think he just used that as an example of the collateral damage promotion's power.
     
  10. davymark8

    davymark8 Chieftain

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    also if the city your'e attacking is coastal you can bombard with destroyers im pretty sure they have a chance to take out fighters
     
  11. Dakhor

    Dakhor Chieftain

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    Well in world builder u can controll the enviroment and test my ideas urself. I myself think that Modern Armours colleteral dammage promotion should be removed. But as it is now - its wastly superior to do it that way.

    But then again u must forego certain other civics in order to be able to promote new units 3 times.

    /DaK/
     
  12. SPQR300

    SPQR300 Deity

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    Use your artillery to decrease the city's 80% defense, then siege with modern armor. Air force is quite useless against a city, which is so well-defensed against air. I mean if you have superior air force, the 3jets wouldnt be so bad, but with 10 mechanized infanty, each with 20% interception renders your airforce useless. If you are the aggressor always bring some siege units other then bombers too.
     
  13. Dakhor

    Dakhor Chieftain

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    Oh I forgot to write my combat ods where 40 vs 72. And I won with 6 Modern armous still alive. And I dont agree on the arty - the time it would take to produce them and move those slow ****ers there - well that time is better spent on taking more cities and building more Modern Armours.

    /DaK/
     
  14. Ruffin

    Ruffin Warlord

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    Anyone try using fighters to bomb so that their fighters can intercept your fighters? Sort of like a fight escort? Haven't fought any air-air combat so I'm curious as to how it works.
     
  15. SPQR300

    SPQR300 Deity

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    No way, you should ALREADY had buildt 2-3 artillery when you sieged the city. If you can build 30modern armor, I guess 2-3 artilery wont be that hard to make. With those you could have reduced the enemy city's defense in a few turns to 0-20%, then your chances would have been ca. 40vs 40-50. And considering the combat mechanics, which give EXPONENTIALLY bigger chances to units which have more strength you would have lost FAR less units.
    Just try to experience the combat system, when the strenght are 40-72, the chances of winning ARE NOT 40/112!!!! You win a strike-stike turn between untis with 40/112 chance, but the damage you cause will be smaller as well regarding the strenghts!!!
     
  16. SPQR300

    SPQR300 Deity

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    Read this thread about combat: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137615
    Then you will realize that artillery is in the game with purpose, even if you have modern armor they are useful.
    Ratio value Odds of winning
    >1.8 99%+
    1.58-1.79 95%-98%
    1.39-1.57 87%-90%
    1.25-1.38 75%-80%
    1.01-1.25 62%-75%
    1.0 50%
    0.80-0.99 25%-38%
    0.73-0.79 20%-25%
    0.64-0.72 10%-13%
    0.56-0.63 2%-5%
    <0.56 <1%
     
  17. Dakhor

    Dakhor Chieftain

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    Well i was not the original poster - he attacked with 30 Modern Armours and lost. And I still dont agree with the arty beeing good enough to use. Sure give me MOBILE arty then ill use it. But as it is now its too damn slow. So its not just the 3-4 turns it takes to reduce the citys defence to 0% u have to take into account extra time it takes to move the arty in the first place.

    And also of course it depends on how u play the game.

    I dont like pro-longed wars - someone attacks me - i take a few of his cities FAST and then make peace. In multiplayer things get a bit more complicated naturally.

    I think the Arty unit needs to be modified. For instance take away modern armours Collateral dammage promition ( or make it 15% or something instead of max 50% ) and give the arty the ability to do collaterall dammage from 2 squares away instead.

    I dont know - as it is now. A kind of Blitz Krieg seems to be much more effective.

    ( ill try some arty bombardment in the world builder and see how many Armours i save )

    /DaK/
     
  18. Ruffin

    Ruffin Warlord

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    A couple of thoughts -
    Rail: Movement on rail is ten spaces, regardless. So trucking your arty to the battlefield on rail (which you probably have if you have modern armor) doesn't make them any slower than tanks. A handful of workers in stacks of 3 can move your rail up as you advance. But if your enemy has jets you can just use his. Arty are not too slow - Civ4 warfare is just slower than Civ3.

    Depth: The problem with that arises when you're attacking a city two or more spaces deep into enemy territory. Your tanks can go in, but arty can only approach the city to one square distant - within enemy arty range and risking massive damage to your stack.

    I this case the temptation is to use bombers to reach deeper into enemy turf. Then you're in the predicament the original poster described. There needs to be a way to clear enemy fighters with your fighters. I haven't tried air-to-air fighting yet (in the one game I actually finished, I didn't end up fighting anyone with flight). Is there a way to clear the intercepting fighters and open the way for bombers?

    Useful thread, assuming it's correct: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137188

    The second way is painful - put some good defensive units in a stack right next to the enemy city, let their arty attack you and mash your stack, and kill their arty in the process. Then move your arty up and pound their defenses to rubble. The drawback is that this requires sacrifice and allows the defender a couple of turns to bring reinforcements, counterattack, drag the neighbors into the war, etc.

    Has anyone tried declaring war, fortifying along their border (on either side, best terrain) and letting them attack you? Maybe you can lure their arty out before you have to attack. Put up your own interceptors and maybe you can kill their fighters too. In killing the French in my last game (something I always try to do), they had 20+ units stacked in their capital. I ran a ring around it then put my arty and some mech infantry on a hill next to it. They plastered my mech and arty with their own seige weapons (catapults... they're French after all), but most of their units moved out of the capital and attacked my ring of SEALs and Mech Inf. I think I lost two SEALs and killed everything they had.
     
  19. Sogetsu

    Sogetsu Chieftain

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    Well the collateral damage promotion didn't work very well so I just brought in some battleships and some artillery and it worked wonders, Alexander is dust now :)

    Btw, the stack of 30 m.armors were meant to take down all the remaining greek cities, not just athens
     
  20. SPQR300

    SPQR300 Deity

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    The AI is quite good at making an economy, but SUCKS very very hard at the art of war.
     

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