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How Tourism is Calculated and a Culture Victory Made.

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Victoria, Nov 15, 2016.

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  1. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    This thread is intended to show current findings and I am happy for any criticism, help, validation. Its just about time it was all clarified as best as possible and I guess if no-one else does I will write up the entire thing with all modifiers as a guide eventually

    So we have tourism that accumulated in our cities that we can see via the tourism lens and we can hover over each to see how much tourism it generates each turn and its accumulative value. The cumulative value here if totaled and compared against the culture victory screen will not match as it lacks the modifiers I will show later. It seems to mainly be used to decide where the tourists are placed.

    upload_2016-11-15_10-58-12.png

    If we hover over the tourism indicator at the top this shows us the raw tourism generated by all cities each turn (just one in this case for simplicity but it would show a breakdown by city.
    upload_2016-11-15_11-2-50.png

    If we now look at the culture victory screen we show some great values at a glance. On the left is the domestic tourism generated by each Civ and this is the cost of all the civics discovered / 100 + a tiny bit of culture for the current civic and any civic eureka's outstanding.

    The light blue oval circles my victory progress. I have 2 tourism points (gained from the civs with the yellow ovals) and I currently need 27 tourism points (one higher that the highest other domestic tourism value circles in red) Once these 2 figures meet I have won.

    I can also see everyone's progress toward this goal and as I have the highest domestic tourism they have a higher hill to climb. It therefore helps to have high civics (via culture) and good civic eureka's.

    I do not have to beat every country, I just need to get those tourism points from anywhere so I can arguably concentrate on easier more friendly civs but the more civs with better modifiers there better off you are.

    upload_2016-11-15_11-3-23.png

    Additional insight into competitor
    I can also hover over a civ and see the base tourism and culture they are creating each turn. This is of some value to identify competitors and watch their speed of growth over turns in more detail than the summary screen. It is the only other competitor information easily seen I know of.
    upload_2016-11-15_11-13-25.png


    Trade Detail Tool-tip Information
    I can also click on each countries tourist suitcase to see how much tourism I am getting from them each turn and more importantly over the lifetime of the game.

    I can see how many tourism I am applying to each civ for the turn as current tourism. This is my total city tourism modified by the route modifiers. (I have a base of 18 tourism and for Rome the +25%, +25% and -12% make it 24 tourism.

    The key number is next to the suitcase is how many tourism points this civ is sending you. The formula for this is

    round down(civ lifetime tourism / (# of civs in the game x 150))

    As this game has 8 civs the value on the right is 1200

    Scythia currently has 1430 lifetime tourism sent to me which when divided by 1200 and rounded down = 1

    We can see Rome has 1029 lifetime tourism so is not providing any tourism points to me. Currently Rome accumulates 24 tourism a turn so in 8 turns with no changes I will get 1 tourism from Rome. I already have open borders and a trade route so I can only increase this by creating more tourism myself or changing to his government which is not a good idea as I will show later.

    A key thing to remember is each point of tourism taken from a civ reduces their domestic tourism by a point so if I can meet the unmet player and get tourism off them it will speed up my victory

    One small point, the unmet player has a -12% government difference so I can roughly guess at their government. Also while the unmet player domestic tourism is high Rome is producing more foreign tourism so is my main competitor. (the figure is not shown here although it seems to match, that is my tourism to them.

    upload_2016-11-15_11-16-52.png

    Tourism Modifiers

    All modifiers modify the current tourism applied to that country, not the lifetime. So it is a slow burn but vital increase to add modifiers.

    Open Borders

    provides a hard coded 25%. This can be a one way modification that really helps expecially when competing against a greedy opponent like Kongo. get them to open their border for a high price in gold (not relics or art etc)

    Trade Route
    A trade route provides a hard coded 25%. This can be a trade route by either civ.

    Sara Breedlove (Modern Era great merchant): +25% Tourism towards other civilizations you have a Trade Route to. 1 charge.

    Civic Online Communities provides +50% tourism to civs you have a trade route with

    Different Religion
    This was the hardest thing to work out by far and so strange that I am not 100% convinced but it is the only way the figures work.

    Different religion is a modifier only if you are the founder of a religion and the other civ is naturally a different religion.

    The modifier only modifies the values for holy city and relics.
    This is calculated before other modifiers and the overall result is the figure other modifiers use including enlightenment,

    Enlightenment
    Enlightenment only applies to relics and not to the holy city.

    Different Governments

    The formula is
    (Gov1_factor + Gov2_factor) x Base Government tourist factor = Diff Gov trade factor

    The Base tourism government factor is hard coded currently at 3

    You then have to compare the 2 governments taking their individual factors into account

    Chieftan = 0
    Autocracy = -2
    Oligarchy = -2
    Classic republic = -1
    Monarchy = -3
    Theocracy = -4
    Merchant Republic = -2
    Facism = -5
    Communism = -6
    Democracy = -3

    Therefore if I am a merchant republic (good idea to be with culture) and want to trade with a Theocracy I will get a government tourism modifier of (-2 + -4) x 3 = -18

    I suspect there is some degradation involved too which still needs testing.

    If I really need to hammer this one country for some reason it may be better to switch governments as there is no modifier then. This would significantly impact my other tourism though and normally not a good idea unless you have got their borders open but not yours which would also significantly damage other trade. Either country having a trade route allows both to gain the tourism (tested as I still get the bonus if they have a trade route with me).
    In reality there is absolutely no reason for a culture victory you would not take the following route unless religious

    Cheftain
    Classic Republic
    Merchant Republic
    Democracy

    Finer Points
    If you loose a city the lifetime tourism points are not lost but naturally your tourism per turn will go down through lost tourism producers

    Finally

    This post is long enough. I guess the idea is a full guide with all the things that help domestic and foreign tourism but I need to work out lots. Information on anything, any help... someone maybe providing the religious modifiers is just one example.

    If a Civ is removed from the game does the base modifier for victory change and do I loose their lifetime tourism?

    I am sure such questions someone will know the answer to. I am just too busy to do too much at once, apologies and I hope you found something of use.
     

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    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
  2. Onii-chan

    Onii-chan Chieftain

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    Nice job

    I guess ultimately culture victory functions more or less the same as in Civ V in terms of what you have to do yourself in order to win, but the details are quite different. The biggest difference is probably that in Civ V your tourism had to actually overtake every single other civ in the game, whereas in Civ VI it merely decides how many tourists you need globally to win. Like you don't have to reach any specific number of visiting tourists from the most culturally advanced civ in the game (other than yourself), you can win just by leeching some extra from the weaker ones. This effectively means that you can't deny someone else a cultural victory just by accelerating your own culture as they can still win it just by praying on the weaker civs instead
     
  3. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    No but you can by

    Denouncing them and getting other friends to which bangs down those borders.
    Getting spies to steal things
    Get them to go to war with you. This is not too hard to do and makes everyone close borders and you can sue for peace for relics/items

    Currently the AI is so useless its not really an issue and it seems when you take over a cultural victory hunter they often declare war if you are close to them with troops.

    The real secrets to cultural victory non religious are peace, diplomacy and a ton of trade routes.

    If you can open borders and trade with everyone your modifier for doing so is big
     
  4. Onii-chan

    Onii-chan Chieftain

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    Yeah of course, just meant that you can't just rely on your own cultural progression to remain "invulnerable", you actually have to take action and go on the offensive somehow, either through direct military action or going cold war style
     
  5. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    There was an earlier thread where they tested this and you keep the lifetime tourists whether you lose a city or a contributing civ. (which means its probably more like Foreign tourists are "bought")

    Once a civ is eliminated, its not certain if the "150* number of civs" changes... might be testable in hotseat. Fire up an 8 player game, let 6 of the civs die (delete the settler) and then see how much tourism one remaining puts on the other.
     
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  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Great idea, will try when I can and tx
     
  7. Xenotitan

    Xenotitan Chieftain

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    Very nice
     
  8. avl8

    avl8 Chieftain

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    Very informative!
    Keep it up, its very useful!

    Can you summarize these mechanics into simple list of "what to do to win culture victory in Civ 6?"
     
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Nope, tested. I will change the guide formula to initial # of civs

    I will write a guide. It is not simple nor short to cover all aspects but a quick summary now would be as follows. Its not the only way, the game is so naff at the moment you can be more chilled. I have probably missed some stuff

    You need to get culture moving as fast as possible as most tourism benefits and modifiers are on the civic tree. This means getting a few cities out with monuments is the safest priority as well as sending a scout out for a good natural wonder. You need to get as many civic eureka's as possible toward this goal and also this boosts cultural defence - domestic tourists. ideally 3 cities close for factory bonuses (which should also be of some priority). Civic bonus districts ideally built in one city for trade benefits. During this time you should always get a trade delegation on the turn you meet, try not to go within 3 tiles of a civ borders and maybe even given your closest neighbors a preferable deal (just a money swap in their favour). Ideally unless going for a religion culture victory (plenty of posts on that) you should avoid religion or building GPP and you should be killing barb camps when you can. In essence get the other civs as happy toward you as they can.

    At this stage you should be looking at spreading out to phase 2 cities, on other continents going wide. Whenever you settle look for flat beach land that is breathtaking as building seaside resorts ASAP is a must. You want to buld another 5-7 cities as phase 2. Most on fresh water mouths with some ameities where possible. Amenities and breathtaking beaches and national park design squares are what you are aiming for with amenities being by far the highest priority, especially double/triple/quads of a luxury as even unfriendly civs will approach you for these to get them happier. Do not make friends with people as it annoys other civs. You should now be building commercial centers, harbors and importantly Theater squares. You need to beeline toward museums and get those in place in you 3 central cities with archaeology. With the phase 2 cities you would have 3-4 art museums and the rest archaeological. Commerial centers you need at least 2 banks.

    At phase 3 you should be getting your archaeologists out there to fill our museums. Themeing bonus a must and also you will start to get great artists which a theming bonus is a must but your banks can hold non themed works (only a themeing bonus in museums). You also need to beeline the civic that gets you double art archaeological bonuses. You need to also get your seaside resorts out and if you have accidentally got enough faith, a couple of national parks. Your production should also be enough to get the odd wonder (all tourism helps). You need also to be getting phase 3 settlers out to get the other spare amenities to deny other civs and make other civs deal with you and be forced not to war with you too much. If there is a heavy culture contender, get a city in a very defensible position near their borders with ranged troops to defend, maybe including frigates/subs/battleships. The shoreline with hills is best. Then annoy the hell out of them so they declare war. This will annoy the other civs and their tourism growth will be seriously hampered... I mean seriously because open borders is a big one.
    I cannot stress how important it is during late phase 2 early phase 3 to start getting those foreign trade routes out. You no longer need additional cogs internally for building as much. Open borders also, make deals... I will give lots of gold away to get open borders. You need to understand trade routes (read the guide with relation to how long one takes and how trading posts work) Diplomacy is very important, I am always slicking on the detail to find out what makes them happy and sad. I am always also careful of attack but normally can guess where it is going to come from because of this.
    Check the cultural victory screen often to ensure open borders and trade routes are active and also now you can slow down on pushing culture. Culture is mainly to get you to the key civic bonuses and for tourism defense. You should now see your domestic tourists at least twice as high as anyone else if all goes well (my last game was 5x as high on king)

    You should also be filling great artists as you go, they are a natural get but will annoy Brazil so be aware of that bit do not hinder it.

    The key is very early tourism is unimportant but during phase 2 you need to get the mechanics in place to get tourism as fast as possible when getting close to the multipliers. Any tourism will do but themeing is important as it seems to give triple but only in museums. and things like broadcast centres for musicians etc also helps... remember you can trade/buy/steal/sue great works off other civs so having spare slots is handy.

    Tourism victories do not come in seconds once you have lost of tourism. It about grinding out that tourism to other civs over a period. ivs will not open borders early and early trade routes should be internal for speed of production. It is later you snowball it out. Your complete tourism is applied against each opponent to the more trade routes and open borders you have the more you will snowball.


    Things that really help
    Civic Cultural heritage provides double tourism for archaeology and great works
    Culture City states and culture natural wonders early
    Civic Online Communities provides +50% tourism to civs you have a trade route with
    Sara Breedlove (Modern Era great merchant): +25% Tourism towards other civilizations you have a Trade Route to.
    Mary Leakey (great Scientist) provides 300% tourism from archaeology
    Cristo Redentor doubles the output of seaside resorts...
    Triple tourist points for great music once Satellite Broadcasts Social Policy is active - maybe 60 -100 tourism
    Eiffel tower increases appeal by 2 points so with 2 national parks, 10 seaside and cristo... about another 36 tourism... not so great but tourism.
    the cultural
    Gunboat diplomacy open city state borders if you are in need of their archaeology
    Terracotta army opens all borders to archaeologists.
    printing doubles the vale of great writings - maybe 50 tourism

    EDIT: Atomic Era Great Merchant that gives +25% tourism towards other civilizations you have a Trade Route to (Melitta Bentz) and 2 Information Era Great Merchants (Jamsetji Tata and Masaru Ibuka) that give +10 tourism to all your Campuses and Industrial Zones

    A really good player will get those great people as they are unique benefits


    Money always helps.. money opens doors
    Location, location, location
    Humanism should be a main beeline.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
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  10. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

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    Oh, you can't have more than 10 seaside resorts?

    You forgot to mention Computers. Doubles all tourism yields. Do you know how modifiers interact? For example, Christo doubles output of seaside resorts, does Computers double it again to 4x, or are these modifiers additive for 3x?

    There is also an Atomic Era Great Merchant that gives +25% tourism towards other civilizations you have a Trade Route to (Melitta Bentz) and 2 Information Era Great Merchants (Jamsetji Tata and Masaru Ibuka) that give +10 tourism to all your Campuses and Industrial Zones. These are all very late though. Might be hard to reach them in time.

    Flight gives bonus tourism to all improvements that give culture. Does anyone know if this applies to pastures getting culture from God of the Open Sky?
     
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  11. He-Who-Hunts

    He-Who-Hunts 2nd Legionary Cohort

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    I've recently been developing a non-religious cultural victory with England, and I must say this write up is fantastic. Thank you for putting the time in on this.

    So difficulty setting and map size have no modifiers?
     
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  12. TomKQT

    TomKQT Chieftain

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    Why does the lifetime tourism differs so much for individual civs? Is it counting only from the moment you first meet the civ? And then the only difference is caused by the modifiers from open borders, governments etc? Or does it also matter how close the civ is to you on the map?
     
  13. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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  14. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Difficulty does not seem to matter but size does as does speed and type of game (onlne etc.)
    They all need writing up.

    Elitetroops, great questions and well worth a like for them... I will test them out. I believe its 300 not 400 but will need to check... unless you do first. Am away on business for a couple of days :(
    I have only tested the 10 limit on standard size map.

    You cannot give tourism to a country that has not met you so yes, no lifetime tourism generated until you do. Proximity to a civ only matters for getting a trade route to them... which is an important thing. Thats why 2nd/3rd phase cities are important... read up the trade route guide... very informative.

    Am currently playing France to see how well wonders can snowball it all... I doubt by much but all things have to be tested... So much to do, so little time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
  15. Soella

    Soella Chieftain

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    Very nice guide!

    I often shoot for cultural victory as well because it seems the fastest one for me on deity (large/huge maps) - domination probably is faster, but I dislike it. Usually it is possible on 160-200 turn.

    My plan is quite different. There is no much sense in having tourism until you have a few +% modifications, plus you need some defence and ability to switch on plan B if something goes wrong, so I start from building solid infrastructure first, and push culture/tourism in the end.

    Step 1 - kill the nearest neighbor with couple warriors, 5-6 archers. Should be done by turn 60, otherwise you need stronger army. I usually take his capital the last, so it often has holy district. If not - well, most probably I don't have religion, no big deal. This step gives you 3 free more or less developed cities (or 2 city and settler) and enough space to settle.

    Step 2 - build infrastructure, meaning 8 -12 cities with commercial (first) and industrial (second) districts, harbors where it is possible. Monument and encampment where it is needed. Don't over push culture or science on this step, if your infrastructure is not ready the price of districts can become an issue. Prioritize feudalism and improve all you can. Choose your best city (usually it is either your initial capital or the one you conquered) and build all possible districts there to maximize benefits for trade routes, each town has to have trade route to it, all other trades are internal routes from your best city. Ideally it should be almost done roughly by turn 90-100.
    As Victoria pointed out, it is crucial to setup good relationships with all civs. You might need to build encampment/keep some units ready just in case.


    Step 3 - Prepare cultural push - add theaters and all buildings everywhere and campus where you can (city grow can be limiting factor on this stage). You want roughly 50/50 art and archeology museums, might depend on map. Beeline Merchant republic, then Urbanism. Radio is your priority in science. Explore (scouts/missioners) as much as possible. Ideally you should be able to setup trade routes with all nations at the end of the stage and have plans where you will place you second wave of towns on step 4. As soon as you build everything you want in the city - start running theater projects. Ideally should be done by turn 120-140.

    Step 4 - Final sprint.
    Grab Computers. Beeline Eiffel tower and Cristo, build both (that's why you need one very powerful city, aim to have at least 120, better 150+ production).
    Run as much theater projects as you can - you are getting both GPP and culture you need to quickly get all policies with +tourism modifications. Buy open borders with all nations, send out trade routes (1 per nation is enough). You might need to send couple routes earlier to build trade posts and be able to reach everyone, or you can drop somewhere size 1 city only to setup trade route.
    Send out second wave of settlement. You want a few new cities to build resorts - thanks to Eiffel, most of seaside cells are breathtaking in your cities. Add couple forests if needed. You can settle wherever, you don't need them to grow - just buy builder. If you have enough faith - setup natural parks in new cities as well.
    You should aim to tourism 1500+, I usually have it at turn 150-170, after that survive about 10-15 turns to your victory.
     
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  16. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    interesting approach for a large map and killing is important on Deity start. I just personally do not like that approach so play around emperor.

    8-12 cities by turn 90 seems a bit of a short. I guess the early kill helps that growth?
     
  17. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

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    Early deity kill gives you 3 cities, so it for sure helps towards a goal of 8-12 cities.

    I'm still wondering, in theory, wouldn't it be better to instead of completely killing one neighbor, you partially kill two? Ideally leave them both with one city, their worst city, and all tiles pillaged. If you severely cripple the AI early, it won't become a threat again, nor will it become the culture leader to raise the required amount of tourists, but it will supply you with tourists. Since your full tourism output is targeting all living AI, you should earn more tourists the more AI there is alive. Of course, if you attack 2 different AI, you might have to deal with the standing army of 2 different AI, which can make this much more expensive. Probably situational...
    Edit: On a large/huge map it probably doesn't make much of a difference. On a small map it would be much more noticeable if one civ is missing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
  18. Xenotitan

    Xenotitan Chieftain

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    A civ can run out of domestic tourists for you to steal. Crippling a civ might not give you many more tourists than conquering it.
     
  19. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

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    This is probably difficulty dependent. On deity they will have 20-30 tourists very early. I looked at an old deity game where I had beaten Kongo down in a war that took place sometime in the t60-t90 range and left him at one city. T165 he had 55 domestic tourists. The other civs in the game had 100-130 domestic tourists.

    Though I'm still not sure where I stand on the killing vs crippling issue. Taking one more city early might often be a larger benefit than the small gain you get later from having one more civ alive.

    Another possible strategy, especially on a small-standard pangaea map, could be to very quickly cripple 3-4 civs, then kill the rest. The remaining civs won't have many domestic tourists, which could lead to a fast victory.
     
  20. He-Who-Hunts

    He-Who-Hunts 2nd Legionary Cohort

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    Are you sure about the 10 sea side resort limitation? I played a game last night where I had more than 10, all within 3 tiles of cities.

    Online speed, immortal dif, small map, pangea, had both Eiffel Tower & Cristo Redentor.
     
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