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How useful are Catapults, anyway?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by TheOverseer714, May 19, 2007.

  1. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    I have never had much luck with Catapults in my time playing this game, but my current game has really hit my last nerve.:mad: My last remaining continental enemy got the Great Wall, and my 7 catapults never damaged anything, turn after turn, unless they were unfortified units outside of cities. I checked the 'pedia, and it says walls give a defense of 8 versus bombardment. So the walls render catapults practically useless...grrrr!
     
  2. metamike

    metamike Warlord

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    I never tend to favor catapults much :)

    I get them pretty much at the same time as pikemen - and I never fight once I get pikemen, instead go for economic prosperity.

    Then when Im ready to fight again, I already have cannons :)
     
  3. Ginger_Ale

    Ginger_Ale Lurker Retired Moderator

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    Like all other types of artillery, they're really most effective in a stack. It's sometimes hard to spend the shields on a big stack of units that can't actually conquer cities, but they really make up for it. If you don't have any iron, catapults can help your "poor man's army" and make it so you can conquer!

    On the technical side, yeah, they are pretty ineffective compared to other types of artillery - pretty weak against cities, versus open terrain units they are fine though. As metamike says though, once the enemy starts to develop and get better units, it's harder and harder to rely on catapults. The window of opportunity to use them is pretty small, but if it's a slow-paced game, consider them...

    ...or just wait for knights. ;)
     
  4. Findus

    Findus Warlord

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    Imo the first really useful artrillery is artrillery. Longer reach, more power and when you have railroads its alot easier to move around the weak units, both to and away from the front.
     
  5. Ginger_Ale

    Ginger_Ale Lurker Retired Moderator

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    I definitely agree. The 2 range really makes up for the fact it has only 1 move in an age when most units have 2 or 3 move. Regular catapults in a time with uncleared terrain (wheeled units -> :mad:) and few roads gets to be a problem.
     
  6. Aceman101

    Aceman101 Emperor

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    I normally just wait for trebuchet's. They're pretty good.
     
  7. King Hannibal

    King Hannibal Chieftain

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    I use them if my civ has an early UU but you have to have alot to make a difference, say 10-20 catapults per UU bomb the city until all are red barred and kill with UU. You get alot of Elites with out much risk of them dieing this way.
     
  8. Son_Of_Dido

    Son_Of_Dido Prince

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    I very rarely have a developed enough empire during the age of catapults that I have the time to build enough catapults to make it worthwhile to have them, and/or the money to support them. (Still expanding, need settlers and workers!)

    Usually by the time I'm ready to build artillery in a meaningful/useful quantity, I've got Trebuchet or perhaps even Cannon Technology.
     
  9. BEHIND_THE_MASK

    BEHIND_THE_MASK A Liar... A Cheat...

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    Most Artillery is useless it seems.

    However, there is an exception: I believe that the Korean Hwacha's have Lethal Land and Naval Bombardment, you wouldn't even need an Attacking army! Musketmen guarding them would be all you need, use them like early Air-Craft but with a smaller range.
     
  10. Jazzmail

    Jazzmail King

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    I use catapults.

    Since I have them, I also use catapults in attacks on cities, but my main use for catapults is dealing with enemy attackers.
    They got a decent chance to hit swordsmen and the like in the open. Then you can choose to attack redlined units or just watch the AI retreat the units beyond it's borders.
     
  11. ecuwins

    ecuwins Emperor

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    I hate those things. I only build them when there is no iron or horses and then I don't make them anymore once I capture some iron or horses.
     
  12. Sir_Lancelot

    Sir_Lancelot Emperor

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    The catapults can be of some use in open terrain. Getting them to the battlefield and in position can be difficult for obvious reasons.
    I never build a lot of them - in that part of the game I usually prioritize infrastructure.
     
  13. Findus

    Findus Warlord

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    And when your using catapults your in a age where the cities are rarely defended on a level that needs artrillery. Who want to attack hopolites anyway or those mercs.
     
  14. Sashie VII

    Sashie VII Balance of Power

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    I do :evil:
     
  15. Sweetchuck

    Sweetchuck King

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    I build them only if I have a boardering civ. Keeps the AI agression level down.

    Otherwise, I avoid building them. Cannons and artiliary are what I shoot for when they come around.

    But, you can upgrade.

    Still, I only build them to keep the natives from getting too restless.
     
  16. Sashie VII

    Sashie VII Balance of Power

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    AIs have little respect for artillery units. Furthermore, they don't function as mps ;)
     
  17. Jazzmail

    Jazzmail King

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    Yes, machines don't do policing or do much to intimidate your neighboors.

    The good thing about this is the AI doesn't consider catapults.
    Firstly the AI won't build them and doesn't know how to use them, which is lucky for us.
    Secondly the AI will happily try to move it's stack around a bunch of defenders with a lot of catapults, as it goes for your cities. The result is all redlined AI units fleeing to the border at no cost to the player.
     
  18. Aceman101

    Aceman101 Emperor

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    I think the opposite, because AI's don't actually fire their artillery (Or do they?) and if they built a good amount of artillery, then that means you can capture them all. :smug:
     
  19. Jazzmail

    Jazzmail King

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    They do rarely fire artillery, but as it is now, they must've captured the artillery from you first...and yeah, the AI would need to have proper code for using artillery in the hypothetical case where it would build them.

    Think about it: the AI, at higher difficulty levels, has got massive production bonusses.
    In our case you'd see AI cities protected, not only by the usual troops, but by dozens of arties too.
    You come in range, their arties hurt your troops and then their arties get another free shot when you attack.
    You ofcourse redline their defenders with your own arties (and later in the game with bombers and ships too), but now it's redlined defenders VS your redlines attackers.
    Our usual advantage, your healthy troops VS their redlines defenders, is gone. Now we are losing alot of troops in each fight and that's not something we can afford at higher difficulty levels.
     
  20. Aceman101

    Aceman101 Emperor

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    True. But I'm pretty sure AI's actually Do build artillery, but not very much. An example here would be, in one of my games, Maya had catapults, I was never at war with them, so they must have either built artillery or captured it off the enemy. I was at war with another civ, so if I lost some cat's to that civ, there is a chance that Maya would capture them off the civ that captured them off me (Maya was at war). But I never lost any artillery, I keep them very safe.

    I suppose your right though, if they built large amounts of artillery, it would be deadly. So yeah, we are lucky. But since I play above Regent, the AI has a production bonus, so that makes a bit up for it. But if I had a choice of 20% production bonus and not being able to build artillery, or not having any bonus but being able to build artillery, I'd choose building artillery and no bonuses.
     

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