How War Weariness Works - WIP

[myclan]

@Victoria How about the WW when being declared war on?

 

[Victoria]

@Victoria How about the WW when being declared war on?

I saw no indication that you got any.

 

[myclan]

I saw no indication that you got any.

Sorry if I got it wrong, does it mean if someone declared war on me, I can conquer his whole nation without suffering any WW?

 

[Forster]

Sorry if I got it wrong, does it mean if someone declared war on me, I can conquer his whole nation without suffering any WW?

No, once you start taking cities, you will start suffering from WW.

 

[Jaybe]

Sorry if I got it wrong, does it mean if someone declared war on me, I can conquer his whole nation without suffering any WW?

It’s the combat that garners WW points, not the DOW.

 

[myclan]

It’s the combat that garners WW points, not the DOW.

No what I mean is WW seems to be modified by CB, so how about the modification of WW if being declared war on.

 

[Victoria]

No what I mean is WW seems to be modified by CB, so how about the modification of WW if being declared war on.

The real sad thing is, if A declares a formal war on B, A suffers standard Warmonger and WW based on a formal declaration but the defender suffers warmonger for taking cities and WW for fighting as if a surprise war... it may feel wrong but to be fair it was a surprise for them.

 

[myclan]

The real sad thing is, if A declares a formal war on B, A suffers standard Warmonger and WW based on a formal declaration but the defender suffers warmonger for taking cities and WW for fighting as if a surprise war... it may feel wrong but to be fair it was a surprise for them.

So I should just make peace with them and declare war on them again after 10 turns with CB if just want to avoid the WW

 

[Victoria]

So I should just make peace with them and declare war on them again after 10 turns with CB if just want to avoid the WW

Well currently WW is not strong enough so it rarely affects you anyway. If you want to mess around with 12 shots from ranged units before you take a city then you may feel a little WW but enough to wait 10 turns for?
If using something more efficient and brutal like knights then WW is not really an issue.

 

[Thibaulthc]

Hello everybody,
Thanks for the data Victoria.

But I think you're wrong on a few points :
From what I understood from the logs, I think
that a civ has a different WW value related to every other civ. And the biggest value is taken in account for the amenity lost.

In my current game, I was at war with Spain and USA for a quite long time, and accumulated around 34000 and 28000 ww
But these two values are separated. Only the biggest one seem to be taken in account for amenity lost (i gave around 90, which match with the 34000)

Fir the distribution of the WW among cities, there's a lot if things I didn't get yet, but yes it is related to the distance from combats.
The important thing is that it seems capped! Depending on your city pop. Around 50%, so from what I saw, max 7 WW for a 15pop city

That's why it sometimes looks like the WW doesn't decrease: let's say you have 10 cities with 10 citizens each ; Max WW would be 50, 5 in each city. If you accumulated 25000 WW, you won't see any difference in the loss of amenities for 25 turns!

 

[Victoria]

But I think you're wrong on a few points :

Perfect, and great, thank you. Of course I am wrong on some things, I have to fill in the gaps of what I do not know. All I have done is play simple basic bits so we have a good idea and use the words like “looks like” and “seems to” for the rest. It’s other people that need to help flesh out the rest like you.
You certainly are likely to be correct with the capping, I have never seen more than -7 in a city but then I find it hard to get that much to start, you must be really bashing each other to get WW that high as only combat effects it and it degrades fairly fast. I am impressed with your violence.
I have spent a fair bit of time on spies lately and no time for the last week, I have a fairly busy life.
I am not sure I am going to do more until R&F comes out due to work amd then R&F new rules will probably take precedence.
Irregardless thank you, all Information is useful to everyone here. If I do ever get something like this into a guide there will be a footnote on good contributors like you.... every bit of info can provide clues on the missing bits.

 

[JustifierNA]

@Victoria

Love your posts!

I'm curious because of something I found in the program's files. How/Is War_Mongering connected to War_Weariness (One of my friends in CPL swears up and down that War_Weariness and War_Mongering penalties are not connected) but this line seems to connect the two functions: Here's a photo of the coding.

Any thoughts?

 

[JustifierNA]

Perfect, and great, thank you. Of course I am wrong on some things, I have to fill in the gaps of what I do not know. All I have done is play simple basic bits so we have a good idea and use the words like “looks like” and “seems to” for the rest. It’s other people that need to help flesh out the rest like you.
You certainly are likely to be correct with the capping, I have never seen more than -7 in a city but then I find it hard to get that much to start, you must be really bashing each other to get WW that high as only combat effects it and it degrades fairly fast. I am impressed with your violence.
I have spent a fair bit of time on spies lately and no time for the last week, I have a fairly busy life.
I am not sure I am going to do more until R&F comes out due to work amd then R&F new rules will probably take precedence.
Irregardless thank you, all Information is useful to everyone here. If I do ever get something like this into a guide there will be a footnote on good contributors like you.... every bit of info can provide clues on the missing bits.

I have had a city with -17 amenities before, unfortunately, I do not have a picture of the game since it was well over 7 months ago but it was before the Macedon/Persia update and I tried to war Gandhi...big mistake

 

[Victoria]

@Victoria
I'm curious because of something I found in the program's files. How/Is War_Mongering connected to War_Weariness (One of my friends in CPL swears up and down that War_Weariness and War_Mongering penalties are not connected) but this line seems to connect the two functions: Here's a photo of the coding.

Any thoughts?

View attachment 486922

Sure, they are connected via declaration. Below is from the first post in this thread which explains it all. Note the use of the value 16 here as well. Both war weariness and war mongering are based on the type of war declaration and if you are the defender or attacker. So if one is high so will the other, it sort of makes sense.... does that help you?

Era Base
You get a base WWP per combat for the era you are in and if it is a surprise war or not.
The formula for this is
Formal war
Era Base = 16 + (min(era number -1,4) * 6) * Casus Belli %
Surprise war
Era Base = (16 + (min(era number -1,4) * 6)) + (3 * (min(era number -1,4)))

 

[JustifierNA]

speed read over the era part but yeah I do see you put it in there already

 

[Victoria]

I have had a city with -17 amenities before, unfortunately, I do not have a picture of the game since it was well over 7 months ago

Thats great to hear, a picture is always nice but not necessary, I believe people by default until I know better. Of course i am cautious about stating things as fact until I see it myself. I guess at some stage I'll have to do a real brutal war to work all of this out properly. Currently waaaay to busy with work.

 

[JustifierNA]

Idk about how population affects it but the city had 24+ pop

 

[Victoria]

Idk about how population affects it but the city had 24+ pop

If you look back to your parameter list there are some likely ties into this area.
Sadly Firetuner has no default WW value for the city and nothing is clear in the logs or it would be a lot easier to work out
I an not super keen on running multi hour tests just to get a single result as getting a clear picture will take days but I guess until we get source code its the only option we have.

 

[Seti_PL]

I need some help to understand formula from first post. I am not sure why there is 19 war weariness points for surprise war in ancient era?

Surprise war
Era Base = (16 + (min(era number -1,4) * 6)) + (3 * (min(era number -1,4)))
= (16 + (min(1-1,4) * 6)) + (3 * (min(1 -1,4)))
= (16 + (min(0,4) * 6)) + (3 * (min(0,4)))
= (16 + 0 * 6)) + (3 * 0))
= 16
What is source for additional 3 war weariness points in table?

 

[Victoria]

I have to fix the table, there are some errors, I’ll try to get some time on the PC this afternoon.