How would you change Prot. & Imperialistic?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Yeosol, Apr 11, 2009.

  1. Yeosol

    Yeosol monarch

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    I would say these are generaly considered the worst 2 traits. On a personal level I find them to be the least interesting/fun. I know they have thier fans but...

    Anyway I'm thinking of modding them a bit so they'll be more interesting. (Note: I'm not making a mod just changing my XML files, so just for me I guess). But anyways what type of changes would you put in if you were making the traits? I'm open to any thoughts but personaly looking for less radical changes.

    Ok so I might not actually get around to changing them but these types of threads are fun anyway.

    For protective I was thinking +1 or 2 Esp. for Walls. The idea of having early Esp. power seemed interesting. Wouldn't really overpower the trait for the AI but could give human players something to play around with.

    For Imp. I'm a little less sure. Maybe 1/2 stables. Maybe Free Combat1 on naval. maybe 25% less city maintenance(not sure I could do that though). Maybe bonus to Cav troops?

    How would you change these traits?
     
  2. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    IMP is pretty powerful, don't touch it.

    PRO getting a 1 EP/turn boost to walls in addition to current bonuses would be interesting and even somewhat logical.
     
  3. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    For protective I think there could be 2 ideas

    1) Half price bunkers and bomb shelters.

    2) A free wall and/or castle in each city.

    Imperialistic is pretty powerful (espeiclaly at higher levels where faster settler production is important). It should be fairly minimal so I like the half priced stables (thus half priced Gers for Ghengis). free combat to naval ships or dropping city maintencne is much too big.
     
  4. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    I would leave them just as they are. Protective is actually pretty useful on deity where you may have to defend yourself early. You can also abuse the wall trick if you're so inclined. Imperalistic is just plain good, early expansion is often key.
     
  5. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    I think the best bonus for PRO would be to alter the walls and castles themselves.

    As TMIT says +1 :espionage: per wall would be nice. When I modded this I tried that and (separately) +1:), but also made them obsolete later (I chose artillery). Maybe even a +1 :) for just PRO leaders?

    Similarly extend the length of use of castles (I used industrialism), they are good but they stop working by the time you build them unless you avoid a useful tech.

    Also post gunpowder units should still have to contend with walls when attacking cities seems ridiculous that they ignore them but I have no clue how to mod this out.

    These changes also gave a massive boost to the Celts (Guerrilla 3 rifles out the gate!) and Spanish (Time for lots more cannons :D)
    I did feel that both these Civs UU's struggled on being obsolete before you can really make the most of them without straining yourself to do so (Delaying rifling to mass G3 muskets seems an extreme measure to me!)
     
  6. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    I feel Imperialistic could use a cheap building or two though. Nothing game-breaking, but while it's a nice trait I don't think it's powerful enough (compared to financial and charismatic) to merit not having any cheap buildings. Jails seem like a good choice.

    And dang, I could have sworn I suggested +1 or +2 :espionage: per wall for protective like several monthss ago.
     
  7. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    The settler bonus is pretty easy to leverage. The military advantage is not as readily apparent but you can make some damned effective military cities if you work a little bit for it. It's with CHA and with IMP that I find those "CR III siege heroic epic" type cities cropping up. Well, with izzy also.
     
  8. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    Yeah, I really enjoy the trait and find it powerful. It just seems to be missing a cheap building, I really like having something I can build cheaply and when I stumble into a Victoria or Hannibal I can feel the lack there, even though they are both really powerful leaders.

    Then again the Organized trait spoils me. :p
     
  9. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    I think 1) would be ok, but it would still feel pretty underpowered.

    2) If you gave a free wall per city you would do 2 things:

    -Stop the wallwhip trick which is the saving grace of PRO in many cases,

    -Make a PRO REX nearly unstoppable, raging barbs on deity? No problem my CG2 archer behind my walls will stop everything they send at me.

    -Free castles would be ridiculous :eek:
     
  10. Zack

    Zack 99% hot gas

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    You can download this or let it inspire you.
     
  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    It would be even more annoying since all the AIs would have walls everywhere instantly if PRO. It's annoying enough as is to attack them.
     
  12. Liquidated

    Liquidated Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!

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    half priced castles bunkers and bomb shelters sounds good for protective actually. Imperial doesn't need a boost imo, it's a very powerful trait at higher levels.

    Cheers!
    -Liq
     
  13. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Very interesting mod! Crazy but interesting!
     
  14. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Ha! I only considered the effect on a human player, I can't imagine removing Sitting Bull from the map with that!

    Most of the suggestions there would be ridiculously imba, +3 hammers from forge for IND!? +100% culture for CRE!? Cheap libraries added to PHI!?
    Although I do like how AGG getting combat one on almost all units would allow me to build amphibious War Elephants right out the gate :D
     
  15. Zack

    Zack 99% hot gas

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    The History in the Making mod has Version 2 of it included, and in it Industrious gives you + 1 :hammers: on tiles with 3 :hammers: or more... which is an INSANE trait.
     
  16. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Unless other traits were buffed, it's a really incredible boost, especially when you look at how the game balances :hammers: vs :commerce: or :gold: when doing upgrades or considering the financial trait. Any mine in existence and workshops after guilds get +1 :hammers:, huh. Scary. I want it when I go warring...
     
  17. Zack

    Zack 99% hot gas

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    Yeah, with that trait, a good number of cities are producing over 100 hammers per turn in the 1500s.
     
  18. Yeosol

    Yeosol monarch

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    Yes I actually saw that post a while ago. It was interesting but not what I was looking for, the changes were way too radical.

    Ok so I played around with the XML and came up with this to start.

    Prot: +1 Esp per city
    Imp: 1/2 Stables

    AND for everyone +1 Esp on walls.



    Why: So the 1/2 stables is actually pretty good seeing how a lot of Imp. leaders have a mounted UU.
    I couldn't figure out how to give Esp on walls for only a specific trait, nor could I decide between 1 or 2 Esp, so this is like a happy medium. Also makes walls more attractive in general which I think is a good thing.

    Oddly enough the change worked on new games but when I loaded old ones they don't have any effect.
     
  19. Crusher1

    Crusher1 King

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    Aggressive and Protective should be combined. Leaders would still keep agg or pass personalities.

    They should add a GG as a GPP producer just like scientist, spies, ge, etc and let IMP also get 100% gg bonus.
     
  20. Razzlesnaff

    Razzlesnaff Warlord

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    I used to hate Imperialistic but I think it's pretty powerful as it is. Early settling can make or break a game in most cases so faster settlers is a good things. Obviously though settlers eventually become useless.

    Protective could benefit from say double production speed for Security Bureau. It isn't awesome but it is "Protection" from spies.

    I think every trait should have at least one "double production" building. People say it'd be overpowered but I still think that Financial leaders should have double production Banks.
     

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