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How would you implement espionage or religion?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Haig, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. Tarsa

    Tarsa Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7
    I like the idea of religion being founded by a Great Prophet instead of some tech.

    One interesting thing would be the ability to found religions in City-States - instead of founding the religion in the player's own civ, a player could send their Great Prophet to a friendly or allied CS and found a religion there. If a particular CS is the holy city of religion A, all civs that have religion A as a state religion could have their influence with the city-state degrade more slowly.

    When the player founds a religion in one of their own cities, the player can then choose between different Holy Temples (or whatever) that are mutually exclusive; build one, and the others are no longer available. Each offers bonuses based on the spread of their religion, but the bonuses differ: you could have a Culture-producing temple, a Gold-producing temple, or a Happiness-producing temple. These wouldn't be +1 per city with the religion, necessarily; it might be +0.3 per city, or whatever, to keep it balanced. Every Holy City you own beyond 1, however, could incur major Unhappiness, to simulate internal friction.

    I actually liked missionaries - random spread is kind of boring and uninvolved; missionaries add an extra mechanic to actively play around with in peacetime. All cities directly linked to a city with a religion would then be subject to a slow, random spread of the religion. Consumable missionaries kind of make sense (you could imagine them each founding a temple in the target city, and staying there to teach), but it might be better to have them permanent; they get in a city, and every 8 turns (or something) they convert one citizen from that city to the religion in question, preferably of the "irreligious" citizens, though if all citizens have a religion and the missionary's religion isn't represented, it could convert one of the citizens to a new religion (only one). I can't remember if they were in Civ4, but missionaries should be attackable and destroyable.

    Religion, then, could be a function of the citizens - say, in a city with 12 citizens, 8 might be Buddhist and 4 might be Jewish. A city with multiple religions could incur Unhappiness; for example, -1 for 2-3 religions, -2 for 4-6 religions. A city with a single religion, though, might get incur +1 Culture (an encouragement to stop the random spread of religion using something similar to Theocracy from Civ4).

    Religion shouldn't have as big an effect on diplomacy. Somebody mentionned it easing border tensions, and I think this would be a good compromise: civs which share borders and a religion do not suffer diplomatic penalties due to border closeness. CS which share a religion with a civ will not degrade their influence as quickly (say 10% less quickly).

    It might also be interesting to implement persecution; for the price of a major diplomacy hit and temporary unhappiness the player could activate a random elimination of 1 citizen-religion per turn (or per 2 turns) of either a target religion, or any non-state religion, thus reducing unhappiness and internal tensions. Additionally, when capturing a second Holy City, there ought to be the option to Raze the Holy Temple, thus avoiding the Unhappiness and losing out on the bonus (it can't be built anymore).
     
  2. Thedrin

    Thedrin Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,650
    Location:
    London
    My big problem with missionaries in CivIV is that when you have a holy city, building and distributing them is usually the correct choice. That's a lot of management to implement a decision that requires little thought.
     
  3. Jediron

    Jediron Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    396
    To me it boils down to one simple question:

    Did we have espionage and religion in our past history ?

    Answer: YES

    Iow; it makes perfect sence there are some espionage and religion related mechanics in Civililization. How much you like it or not have nothing to do with that.

    It's the "way" those mechanics are embedded into the game that matters. Not that it should be there or not; because it should; period.
     
  4. gunter

    gunter King

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
    Messages:
    790
    To be honest I don't miss religions but I miss a lot the espionage.

    I would simply introduce a Diplomatic / Spy unit that like submarines can be seen by other Diplomatic / Spies only and therefore with an own strenght level and with a particular graphic animation like snipers and/or something used by James Bond.
     
  5. Biz_

    Biz_ Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    482
    The game needs espionage like power graphs (but not so transparent)
    sabotage isn't really necessary

    religion would be a really easy way to add happiness. right now there aren't enough ways to keep people happy
     
  6. Jediron

    Jediron Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    396
    A unit like spy would be fine. But then one, that improves after doing duties and gaining experience. I hated the "this will cost you that amount of gold" spy missions; too dumb and too much related to gold; so only usable when you have tons of cash. I also believe spies can counter-spy. So leaving one behind in your capital is a good way to "protect your secrets/tech".
     
  7. gunter

    gunter King

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
    Messages:
    790

    Absolutely agree, the relationship gold-spy missions is outrageous indeed.

    Only experience should determine the tasks capabilities, a small amount of gold should be necessary anyway just to finance those hidden operations, just a symbolic amount I mean.

    Sabotage is intriguing indeed !! ;)
     

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