How would you order the Civ 5 civilizations in their historical importance order?

[Masada]

I like how this thread has degenerated into a Pole talking to himself.

 

[Domen]

I like how this thread has degenerated improved into a Pole talking to himself.

Now better.

 

[daft]

It's quite impossible to rank civ5's tribes for sure.
Regarding China again. It was mighty in Ancient Era under a few dynasties but also not a single nation but a group of kingdoms ofter viciously at war with each other. It's importance in the world scale was mostly limited to the Orient(Far East Asia), unlike Rome which ruled a large part of Europe, parts of Middle Eastern Asia and the shores of north Africa. In the middle ages for a long time China was ruled by the Mongols, was reborn as a great empire in the Renaissance under the Mings but became a non factor in the Industrial Era. In the early part of the Modern Era it was partially controlled by Japan only to rise again as a world power during the last quarter of century.

 

[daft]

Canucks? You meant Maple Leafs of course!

 

[daft]

Forgot about Sarmatians I think, didn't they reside in parts of modern day Poland? The coolest Slavic tribe ware the pagan Veleti(Wieleci?). They worsipped a 3 headed dragon as their main deity and were very warlike. Lived in the modern day North-East Germany, some believe that Berlin is the name of their town before the Germans conquered it and wiped them off the world's map.

 

[Domen]

didn't they reside in parts of modern day Poland?

The western border of region called "Sarmatia" was along the Vistula River - in the middle of Poland. But it does not mean, that Sarmatians resided so far to the west. Those regions and their names were arbitrarily defined by Greek and Roman historians, rather than having anything to do with reality. And the same applies to "Germania" - which bordered "Sarmatia" along the Vistula River (to the west of Vistula everything was "Germania", to the east of Vistula everything was "Sarmatia"). It does not mean, however, that entire continental Barbaricum (i.e. all of Europe outside of the Roman Empire) was inhabited only by Sarmatians and Germanians.

 

[Tee Kay]

I like how this thread has degenerated into a Pole talking to himself.

Now better.

Reminds me of this song

 

[Lohrenswald]

Love a good discussion! Whichever country, or rather culture one grew up in, he/she is likely to have it higher on this type of list than others.
The way I see it is that China grew stagnant, Europeans took advantage and became dominant.

Vikings #1

 

[Domen]

Vikings were a civilization? Then Cossacks were one as well.

 

[Kyriakos]

Vikings were a civilization? Then Cossacks were one as well.

Harald III was a civilization. Anything with so many nomismata has to be.

 

[Traitorfish]

4. England/Great Britain. As I once heard in History Channel, nowadays every country and culture has been influenced in one way or another by the British vision and imagination.

That seems like a contradiction in terms.

 

[schlaufuchs]

4. England/Great Britain. As I once heard in History Channel...

That's your first problem

 

[Tahuti]

What? I thought it was so obvious that it went without saying.


Link to video.

Goes without saying, but still worth it I guess.

 

[Domen]

Medieval Poland had its first university before Germany established its first university.

The Prague University (in the Kingdom of Czechia / Bohemia - which formally was within the boundaries of the HRE) was founded before the first university in Poland. But the first university in the Kingdom of Germany itself was founded later than the first university in Poland.

The University of Cracow (founded in year 1364 by King Casimir III the Great in Cracow - the capital city of Poland at that time) was - together with the University of Prague - among the best universities of Europe, or at least of Central-Eastern Europe. How popular abroad this university was, is proven by fact, that during the 15th and the early 16th centuries only about 50% of all students of the Cracow University were students from the Kingdom of Poland, while around 50% of them were foreigners - including Hungarians, Slovaks, Czechs, Croats, Germans, Poles from Silesia, Swiss people and other groups.

People from Silesia alone (both ethnic Polish and ethnic German) were even up to 15% of all students in period 1400 - 1525.

Also the Prague University was pretty international. In the 15th century students of the Prague University were divided into 4 "Nationes" - those were "natio Bavarorum" (Bavarian), "Saxorum" (Saxon), "Polonorum" (Polish) and "Bohemorum" (Bohemian). The "Polish Nation" included students from the Kingdom of Poland, but also from the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, from Prussia, from Silesia, from Lusatia, eastern Thuringia and from eastern Saxony.

The University of Leipzig also divided its students into 4 "Nationes" - "natio Misniensium", "Saxorum", "Bavarorum" and "Polonorum".

During the 15th century, the Cracow University had around 2000 students annually.

Here is a reconstruction of the 15th century look of the Cracow University:

http://www.starykrakow.com.pl/dawny-uniwersytet/akademia_krakowska.htm



And here is how 15th century dorms in Cracow looked like:

Bursa Ubogich = Dorm of The Poor (founded in 1409 by Jan Isner, renovated and expanded in 1462 by Jan Długosz):



Bursa Jeruzalem = Dorm of Oleśnicki / Dorm Jeruzalem (founded in 1453 by Zbigniew Oleśnicki):



Bursa Długosza = Dorm of Długosz (founded in 1471 by Jan Długosz; demolished in 1840) - picture is from the 18th century:



There was an established custom among the students of the Cracow University that in each academic year during one week - between 15 and 22 October - students from Cracow were playing truant and having grand parties. They were also taking power over the university, and after that they were electing a student king and his royal court. Then they were going out on the town and taking power over the city during those few days.

"Breve regnum" - a 15th century song of Cracow's students, which tells the story of their "short reign" taking place each year in October:

Below "Breve regnum" performed by a modern Ukrainian band Kings & Beggars:

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breve_regnum_erigitur

http://www.kings-and-beggars.com.ua/main.htm


Link to video.

==================================

Some websites about the early years of the Cracow University (in Polish):

http://www.polonia-viva.eu/index.ph...egorised/288-akademia-krakowska-lata-wietnoci

http://www.polonia-viva.eu/index.ph...tecie-krakowskim-w-xv-wieku-szkic-historyczny

The list of university presidents of the Cracow University since year 1400 until today:

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rektorzy_Uniwersytetu_Jagiellońskiego#1400_-_1499

 

[Phrossack]

Domen, don't you already have your own thread dedicated to your pet country? Do you really have to derail every discussion you participate in to post walls of text nobody wants to read with links in a language few CFCers even can read to discuss your obsession?

 

[Antilogic]

Domen, don't you already have your own thread dedicated to your pet country? Do you really have to derail every discussion you participate in to post walls of text nobody wants to read with links in a language few CFCers even can read to discuss your obsession?

You'd think the separate thread would be enough...

 

[Domen]

You'd think the separate thread would be enough...

I just did not want a complete Apartheid.

 

[Phrossack]

I just did not want a complete Apartheid.

There's a difference between Apartheid and a quarantine.

 

[GoodGame]

1) China. For 5500 of the last 6000 years, this was the largest, most populous, most technologically advanced and most stable country on earth. It dominated Asian civilization and influenced western civilization more than vice versa
2) Rome. The languages, architecture and laws of western civilizatian, but most importantly, the size and stability of the Roman empire stimulated Christianity to spread - and that's a big one.
3) England. The colonial empire influenced the world and the industrial revolution started there. In what language are we having this discussion?
4) Greece. Hellenic culture and Philosophy shaped the near east and Mediterranean. The first western alphabet is a major thing. Greece also influenced Rome a lot, see above. Overall though, its influence was more subtle than Rome's and England's.
5) Mongolia. Destroying so much (the Arabs would probably be on a higher position if the Mongols hadn't destroyed Baghdad), they also made the Asian nations focus their attention on their hinterlands for generations after. This allowed the western nations to colonize a lot of Asia's coastline through maritime power.
6) Arabia. Islam, preserving the classics.
7) The Ottomans. The Ottoman/European conflict shaped both the Middle East and Europe.
8) Spain. Shaped south America and had a major influence in the religious conflict in Europe.

The rest IMO are too recent or minor to say anything about. The US seems important now, but they might be a short historical blip, like the Netherlands, or their influence might not last (like Carthage). We should be able to see in about 400 years time how important they really were. Egypt, however interesting, did little to advance humanity technologically as a whole. It's culture also did not spread far.

I think the above the list is pretty sound. Just wanted to add that if the US wasn't influential in its time, several civ players would risked being short-lived blips under Germany or Russia.

The problem with the (un-modded) Civ games is they are always trying to appeal to audiences, which includes recognizing modern nations alongside more ancient ones leading to ahistorical juxtapositions. Comparing the contributions of ancient/classical Middle-eastern city-states with those of modern nations is comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

GG - you pointed out the two reasons such a comparison cannot be objectively made:

1. How do you compare the US, who, while having been around for less time than some of the dust on the buildings in Europe, have been the most all-around influencial country for the last century, for good or bad. Most of the classic civs have not been major players since long before that.

2. Personal biases are there, and the developers have to play to it. They are in it to make money - if they could not make money, they wouldn't make the game. Fact is, the vast majority of the people out there are not historical scholars (such is why the History Channel exists in the form it does, and public television is where IT is - not that it is that much better).