Hows siam?

[Doctor Doom]

People I know constantly praise it and most tierlists I see have it in high-highmid placement. Their bonus seems a bit subpar... And I always hear about the elephant being really good but it just seems like a slightly better knight with formation. What's so great about Siam? And how do you play them?

 

[chazzycat]

yeah they are quite good. The bonuses to city states just mean you can get a crap ton of food, culture, and faith. the UU/UB are alright too, but IMO the UA is what really shines. You should be revolving much of your strategy around getting as many allies as possible.

they did take a bit of a hit with the consulates nerf though.

 

[Amarr Emperor]

siam sucks imo

 

[zukenft]

at least there are still the free wat trick.
on strategy, as the UA increases the food from CS allies, it's best to build temple of artemis. extra gold from commerce is nice, for the synergy with the gold-gifting bonus in patronage. especially with the large capital with +1 gold per pop from tradition. which you will grow quickly because of CS allies and artemis.

 

[Doctor Doom]

at least there are still the free wat trick.
on strategy, as the UA increases the food from CS allies, it's best to build temple of artemis. extra gold from commerce is nice, for the synergy with the gold-gifting bonus in patronage. especially with the large capital with +1 gold per pop from tradition. which you will grow quickly because of CS allies and artemis.

Wait.... Free wat trick? I'm interested

 

[ixias]

Since the Wat provides culture, if you build Monuments, Amphitheaters, and Libraries in your first 4 cities, you'll get 4 free Wats. It's pretty neat, but does delay finishing Tradition and you have to go into another tree. A bit of a trade-off, but still pretty neat.

 

[Vitruvius]

The elephant is one of the best units in game. 25 strength 3 movement and cheaper and earlier than muskets. And it has bonus vs mounted so its basically a lancer but unlocked earlier. Its no keshik or camel archer only because range units are way too imbalanced in this game.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[FeiLing]

AAA UA (probably the 2nd best in the game (hi poland!)
AAA UB (probably one of the best in the game.)
A UU (it's annoying when the AI spams it, players don't care much, as you never (want to) build unique units unless they replace units from the archer line)

WAT's wrong with you? They are absolute top tier.

 

[Doctor Doom]

AAA UA (probably the 2nd best in the game (hi poland!)
AAA UB (probably the best in the game.)
A UU (it's annoying when the AI spams it, players don't care much, as you never (want to) build unique units unless they replace units from the archer line)

WAT's wrong with you? They are absolute top tier.

"Wats"

 

[Plumfairy]

they did take a bit of a hit with the consulates nerf though.

That was a pretty large nerf, actually. When Siam could permanently be friends with all the CSs, their UA made the Siamese gods among men.

Now they're merely "very good".

 

[Doctor Doom]

Wait hold on what's the maximum resting point you can get with patronage?

 

[Væringjar]

Their both UA and UU seems great but never tried before. but, I'll try them as soon as possible.

 

[WiseGreen]

Wait hold on what's the maximum resting point you can get with patronage?

I think it's 20 or 25, just short of being Friends. I *think* that if you manage to have Papal Primacy and the CS's are constantly of your religion, you get to be perma-friends with them, but then you have to manage founding a reigion, then go after one subpar founder belief, then have a lot of work spamming missionaries/inquisitors/prophets to keep them from converting to other religions, and then it (IMHO) stops being worth the hassle.

 

[Doctor Doom]

Sorry I just have to ask 1 more question. How much culture/food/faith do you get with Siam per CS? Thanks so much man I think you've convinced me to try them out!

 

[Browd]

I think it's 20 or 25, just short of being Friends. I *think* that if you manage to have Papal Primacy and the CS's are constantly of your religion, you get to be perma-friends with them, but then you have to manage founding a reigion, then go after one subpar founder belief, then have a lot of work spamming missionaries/inquisitors/prophets to keep them from converting to other religions, and then it (IMHO) stops being worth the hassle.

Consulates is +20 to resting point. Papal Primacy is +15, but requires all of the heavy lifting you describe.

 

[Deau]

AAA UA (probably the 2nd best in the game (hi poland!)
AAA UB (probably the best in the game.)
A UU (it's annoying when the AI spams it, players don't care much, as you never (want to) build unique units unless they replace units from the archer line)

WAT's wrong with you? They are absolute top tier.

Their UA is great but miles behind 2nd to poland.
Steele, pyramids are hands down significantly better than wats. There are a couple others as well.

The reason why they are played/discussed little compared to the civ scoring is because their ua+ub require shifting your opener and SP strategy around to min/max and because Freedom doesn't do good with wide empires due to happiness.

They were silently nerfed with patronage as it used to provide +50% yield to a broken mechanic. They also have a less desireable starting bias.

With all of that said though, theyre the next civ after poland for the number of expected SPs and speed of acquisition and they can offset poor faith through CSs as well as poor cap growth through CSs which no other civ can do as well. The legalism+wats trick used to be more powerful in vanilla but it can still be outstanding for liberty based early rush opener. Its just not as strong for 3-4 city tall because delaying trad finisher is very pricy on growth

 

[Optional]

If you like to read the story of a game with Siam I can point you to a Succession Game where we played them: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=454505.
That was a conquest game, and those elephants really tore the map apart. It was old vanilla, I think also the elephants have been nerfed since then, but I can understand that.
But there's not much Siam isn't good for. Conquest, Science, Culture, Diplo, they tick every box, possibly without really being #1 at anything.
Their starting bias is just 'avoid tundra', that hardly deserves a mark-down.
Maybe they have an uncool leader screen and civ colours...

 

[Doctor Doom]

If you like to read the story of a game with Siam I can point you to a Succession Game where we played them: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=454505.
That was a conquest game, and those elephants really tore the map apart. It was old vanilla, I think also the elephants have been nerfed since then, but I can understand that.
But there's not much Siam isn't good for. Conquest, Science, Culture, Diplo, they tick every box, possibly without really being #1 at anything.
Their starting bias is just 'avoid tundra', that hardly deserves a mark-down.
Maybe they have an uncool leader screen and civ colours...

Uncool leader screen?! A tiny Asian dude dressed like a golden alien, how is that not cool?!

 

[MarauderCH]

I am the king of Siam!!!


Their UA with CS bonus is phenomenal!

 

[Doctor Doom]

I am the king of Siam!!!


Their UA with CS bonus is phenomenal!

Quick question, how much do they give you culture/faith/food wise?